11th Battalion Parachute regiment

Hope it goes well for James....The Kos drop was carried out by A Company of the 11th reinforced by men from B and C Companies.....

 

I have just again finished reading Arnhem Doctor and once more my intrests has been aroused in looking for some of the site that Capt Stuart Mawson MO for 11th Para writes about, He mentions treating the wounded in a barn and that Ambulances jeeps drove into the Barn which had large doors to collect casualties which acted as a RAP and removed them up to the Schoonoord Hotel which is about a mile from the barn. However Mawson says he saw the Schoonoord the night before with bright lights on in the windows, if this is the right location it seems a long way for him to have gone up and back
I have been using Googlemap and noticed a large barn with the type of doors he mentions just off the Van Borsselenwag in Oosterbeek and in the right position for the line of march that 11th Para would have taken in there advance towards Arnhem, could anyone confirm if this is the Barn, I am sure Airborne Medic might know.

 

I have just again finished reading Arnhem Doctor and once more my intrests has been aroused in looking for some of the site that Capt Stuart Mawson MO for 11th Para writes about, He mentions treating the wounded in a barn and that Ambulances jeeps drove into the Barn which had large doors to collect casualties which acted as a RAP and removed them up to the Schoonoord Hotel which is about a mile from the barn. However Mawson says he saw the Schoonoord the night before with bright lights on in the windows, if this is the right location it seems a long way for him to have gone up and back
I have been using Googlemap and noticed a large barn with the type of doors he mentions just off the Van Borsselenwag in Oosterbeek and in the right position for the line of march that 11th Para would have taken in there advance towards Arnhem, could anyone confirm if this is the Barn, I am sure Airborne Medic might know.

I will supply a full answer later today.......

 

The building you see is most probably the white farm along the Van borsselenweg which was 1st border HQ and Medical Post

 

My view is that the use of the word 'barn' is perhaps overstated.....the 11th Btn HQ Company was I suspect at the back of the snake from DZ Y towards Arnhem on the 18th......see SFAM Ministory no 86 and whilst they did stop briefly in Oosterbeek it was unlikely elements were on the van Borsselenweg.
I have been in western Arnhem in a car with Stuart and a member of the Oosterbeek Airborne Mafia and he pointed out a couple of houses where he thought he had his RAP on the night of the 18th/19th September.....
I wonder if he got confused over a barn with the supporting section of 133PFA under Captain Lawson who according to his account set up a 'staging post' in a location in eastern Oosterbeek on 18th/19th....I know where this is/was and often point it out on walks in the area to groups......
Does this help?

 

My view is that the use of the word 'barn' is perhaps overstated.....the 11th Btn HQ Company was I suspect at the back of the snake from DZ Y towards Arnhem on the 18th......see SFAM Ministory no 86 and whilst they did stop briefly in Oosterbeek it was unlikely elements were on the van Borsselenweg.
I have been in western Arnhem in a car with Stuart and a member of the Oosterbeek Airborne Mafia and he pointed out a couple of houses where he thought he had his RAP on the night of the 18th/19th September.....
I wonder if he got confused over a barn with the supporting section of 133PFA under Captain Lawson who according to his account set up a 'staging post' in a location in eastern Oosterbeek on 18th/19th....I know where this is/was and often point it out on walks in the area to groups......
Does this help?

Perhaps your right, in the fog of war places can be overstated, I have read the page again and as you say it looks like the CCP set up by Capt Lawson so I am presuming that this CCP was between the LZ and the Divisional HQ so further out of Oosterbeek, I would still be interested where it was situated.
This seems like a new trip to Arnhem is on the cards

 

The building you see is most probably the white farm along the Van borsselenweg which was 1st border HQ and Medical Post

This could be another one for Airborne Medic, Was this the RAP that Capt Brian Devlin RAMC worked from before ending up in the Schoonoord Hotel and the QE Hospital ?

 

Capt Lawson, in his E&E report, states that they stayed at position 720776 for the first night, he says that they arrived there at about 0200 on 17th (this must be 19th as he incorrectly states that he set off from England on the 16th). At 0600 he went to St Elisabeth Hospital taking with him 6 wounded. Here he found 16 PFA seriously depleted in numbers after the Germans had taken a large number of their orderlies and medical staff so he returned to Bn HQ and took 10 of his 20 man section back to the Hospital where they stayed.

According to Capt Devlin's E&E report his party was surrounded and captured on the 18th September and taken to St Elisabeth Hospital where they were allowed to remain and work.

John

 

This could be another one for Airborne Medic, Was this the RAP that Capt Brian Devlin RAMC worked from before ending up in the Schoonoord Hotel and the QE Hospital ?

Captain Devlin to the best of my knowledge was never in the vicinity of the van Borsselenweg. He was 7th KOSB RMO and was taken prisoner in the north of Oosterbeek....the van Borsselenweg when occupied was Border Regt territory.......

 

I've also found out recently that Stuart M did a bit in a 1980's SSVC film on the airborne medical services at Arnhem......filmed apparently in Arnhem...currently negotiating to try and get a copy of the film......

 

That sounds interesting.

 

I've also found out recently that Stuart M did a bit in a 1980's SSVC film on the airborne medical services at Arnhem......filmed apparently in Arnhem...currently negotiating to try and get a copy of the film......

Keep us updated mate!

 

Keep us updated mate!

I am licking my lips with anticipation

 

I found this I might be wrong but im not sure I have seen this article before


The third battalion, the 11th Parachute Battalion, was the youngest battalion in Hackett’s Brigade. It was activated in March 1943 in Kabrit, Egypt. To find enough volunteers for the battalion was not an easy task, as a lot of men had already volunteered to join the 10th Parachute Battalion when the 11th was being formed. The 11th was created around a cadre drawn from the 156 Parachute Battalion. Lieutenant Colonel Micky C. Thomas was the first battalion commander. He had previously served in the 156 Parachute Battalion. The 20 years-old Private Pat Gorman was one of the first members of the battalion:

“Before I joined the 11th Battalion, I had spent about two months with the Long Range Desert Group (LDRG’s) in Libya. They were then disbanded and I joined the 11th Parachute Battalion in June 1943, it was then known as X Battalion and we were formed in Palestine. Before joining the LDRG’s and the Para’s, I was trained as a Wireless Operator in the Royal Artillery.”

On September 13, 1943 a composite company, made up from a rifle platoon from each company and a mortar and a machine-gun section, jumped above the island of Kos to occupy it. Private Pat Gorman was one of the Para’s who were selected for the jump:

“I jumped on Kos in 1943. The [composed] Company consisted mainly of troops from A Company, but there were several other chaps there from other Companies. I was in a group led by CSM “Smudger” Smith. I served in both A and B Company but at the time of Arnhem I was in 4 Platoon, B Company.”

On the ground there was no opposition, so it wasn’t a combat jump after all. Some local civilians had even spread out straw and hay on the dropping zone, which had been marked by a detachment of the Special Boat Service. The composite company stayed on the island and patrolled the coastline together with the 1st Battalion Durham Light Infantry of Lieutenant Colonel R.F. Kirby and a detachment of the Royal Air Force Regiment, until they were withdrawn on the 25th of September, 1943. The Germans launched a counterattack on the 3rd of October, 1944 and captured about 3000 Italian and 900 allied soldiers. The men of the 11th Parachute Battalion had been pulled out just in time.

At the end of December 1943, after the battalion had spent much more time training in Palestine and at Sousse in Tunisia, the battalion returned to England together with the rest of the 1st Airborne Division, but without any combat experience. Private John Bosley joined the 11th Parachute Battalion a couple of months after its arrival in England:

“In April 1944 I joined 11th Battalion, The Parachute Regiment almost direct from parachute training at Ringway. Prior to this I had served in a young soldier’s training Regiment in the Royal Artillery, where I learnt everything to do with this arm of the Services but knew very little about Infantry work. I could drive a motor cycle, operate a wireless set, fire a 25 pounder gun, was a Specialist R.A., Signaller, map reader, aircraft and tank recognition expert, morse code operator, O.P. and Range expert, in fact the course I attended was for potential Officers and NCOs, but all that ended when most younger gunners were sent to the Infantry where there was a great shortage, so being keen on aeroplanes I applied for the Para’s and soon found myself doing the tough course prior to parachute training where they weed out the men from the boys.
On arriving at 11th Battalion The Parachute Regiment in a pleasant little town called Melton Mowbray, I was placed in the Intelligence Section, probably because of my previous experience and also because I knew a lad in this section whom I had been with at Ringway. He was a German Jew called Gustav Sander, a very well educated lad whose father had managed to get his family out of Germany just prior to the outbreak of War in 1939. Gus was later commissioned in the Middlesex Regiment but was killed in action in Korea.
The battalion was camped in a wooden hutted Barracks, which was quite comfortable and was part of Brigadier Hackett’s 4th Parachute Brigade. The Intelligence Section comprised of an officer Lieutenant Crawford, a Sergeant Michael Elliott, MM, a real gentleman and a fine soldier, a Corporal “Rocky” Knight, L/Cpl J. Prout, Ptes John Latz, a chap called Jack, Harry Liston the Intelligence Officers batman, Pte Jim Bourne, all of whom wore the Africa Star, and of course us two youngsters, Gus and me. We were both 19 years old.
I was issued with a queer little gun called Sten, which when fired, always stopped after a round or two. We trained quite a lot with the 68 wireless set, a small two-way radio with a fishing rod type aerial, but found that its range was only a couple of miles, and the battery only lasted about 4 hours.
However, early June 1944, we were suddenly placed on standby and expected to be part of an invasion force. We were shocked to learn that the 6th Airborne Division had landed in Normandy as we regarded that our Division, 1st Airborne, was much more experienced and was the best for the job. However, later that day, (6 June 1944), we were briefed to land at Caen in Normandy, but this was soon cancelled owing to German Panzers being on the D.Z.

From then on it was a matter of being stood to and stood down for various operations ahead of the Invasion Force but all were cancelled until the second week in September 1944 when we were briefed to go to Arnhem in Holland to capture a huge bridge over the River Rhine.
Everybody thought that this operation would be cancelled again and did not take it too seriously, however when on Sunday 17th September we heard that the first lift had gone, we realised that we at last were going into action.”

In England Lieutenant Colonel Micky Thomas wasn’t able to command the battalion. It was clear that a firm commander was needed. Hackett relieved him from his command in 1944 and named his Brigade Major, George H. Lea, as the new battalion commander. The executive battalions commander was also replaced and was succeeded by Major Richard “Dicky” T.H. Lonsdale. Lonsdale was a robust officer with a lot of combat experience who had served in several parachute battalions and had been transferred repeatedly for his “unconventional behaviour”. It was his behaviour that would enable him to lead a powerful combat group during the fighting in Oosterbeek.
Major David Gilchrist, commanding A Company, was briefed on Operation Market Garden in the Battalion Headquarters in Leicester by Lieutenant Colonel George H. Lea. Gilchrist had served in the 156 Parachute Battalion before he joined the 11th Parachute Battalion when it was activated in March 1943.
He recalled that there was “some surprise” about the assault plan. “That the drop was so far from our objective. We were told that there were few German soldiers near the town and that they were mostly old.”

Private Pat Gorman recalled of the time in England:

“The CO of the 11th was Lieutenant-Colonel Lea, my Company Commander was Major [Guy] Blacklidge and my Platoon Commander was Lieutenant [Wilfred] Speke. I and a chap named Bright were the Platoon PIAT gunners (anti tank weapon), there were always two members of the Platoon to handle the PIAT and its ammunition. As far as I remember, we were briefed about Arnhem about three days before we dropped.”


Additional pages to Airbornetroops

 

A very interesting thread and i will be one of the first to buy a copy of any history of the 11th battalion as my grandfather was a sergeant in the battalion and killed at Arnhem (Robert Thompson) . I had no idea that the battalion had such a short history as i understand my grandfather had been a Para for some time before 43 but it does explain some of the photos we have of him in palestine (possibly Haifa).
He was a sergeant so i suppose its possible that he was transfered to the 11th as an experianced NCO . I do believe he was dropped in sicily but have no idea what battalion or brigade this would have been with and there is also talk of him serving in north africa but i have no confirmation of this and maybe my imagination of the hero grandad from when i first heard of his exploits as a teenage boy . But i do know he was a early volunteer in 39 so he could well have served in NA ?
A funny story that he told one of my relatives about being dropped in sicily is that when he landed near an airfield he heard someone rushing about around him and jabbering in italian and he thought oh crikey ive had it here. but as he struggled to get his chute off he looked around and the italian voice turned out to be an italian soldier trying to surrender to him at the same time trying to help him collect his parachute .
whether a true story or not i have no idea , maybe he was just trying to reasure his family and friends that the war wasnt that bad but i like to think it was true . phil
Sorry not of much help to the history of the 11th

 

Just don't start collecting the books Dave, that way leads to madness!!


These words are now echoing in my ears

 

A very interesting thread and i will be one of the first to buy a copy of any history of the 11th battalion as my grandfather was a sergeant in the battalion and killed at Arnhem (Robert Thompson) . I had no idea that the battalion had such a short history as i understand my grandfather had been a Para for some time before 43 but it does explain some of the photos we have of him in palestine (possibly Haifa).
He was a sergeant so i suppose its possible that he was transfered to the 11th as an experianced NCO . I do believe he was dropped in sicily but have no idea what battalion or brigade this would have been with and there is also talk of him serving in north africa but i have no confirmation of this and maybe my imagination of the hero grandad from when i first heard of his exploits as a teenage boy . But i do know he was a early volunteer in 39 so he could well have served in NA ?
A funny story that he told one of my relatives about being dropped in sicily is that when he landed near an airfield he heard someone rushing about around him and jabbering in italian and he thought oh crikey ive had it here. but as he struggled to get his chute off he looked around and the italian voice turned out to be an italian soldier trying to surrender to him at the same time trying to help him collect his parachute .
whether a true story or not i have no idea , maybe he was just trying to reasure his family and friends that the war wasnt that bad but i like to think it was true . phil
Sorry not of much help to the history of the 11th
Phil, my above post gives you an idea of the 11th movements prior to Arnhem, but as you say your Grandad may well have come from another Para battalion, you mentioned Sicily, 1 2 and 3 Para were there and here is a link, The 1st Airborne Division in Sicily

 

Phil, my above post gives you an idea of the 11th movements prior to Arnhem, but as you say your Grandad may well have come from another Para battalion, you mentioned Sicily, 1 2 and 3 Para were there and here is a link, The 1st Airborne Division in Sicily

Thanks for that , i shall have to find out his war records and find out which regiments/battalions he served with (is there an easy link to do this)as im pretty sure he transfered from the middx regiment into the paras in early 42 but have no proof of this . phil

 

Thanks for that , i shall have to find out his war records and find out which regiments/battalions he served with (is there an easy link to do this)as im pretty sure he transfered from the middx regiment into the paras in early 42 but have no proof of this . phil
Some links that may help. The Middlesex Regiment Family History Local History You will see that the 2/7th Bn is mentioned who served in Sicily but it would seem likely he just transfered to the paras in 42.His service number falls into the allocation of numbers given to the RASC this does not mean he was not in the Middlesex regiment as his service number I believe would of stayed the same despite changing regiments......... if im wrong im sure someone will enlighten us.

 

Has anyone got ref no's i.e WO- REF, for the 11th's war diaries? and would they include any info prior to Arnhem, which is in post 37 on this thread cheers folks edit, Drew our man at Kew asks, "So you need to ask if there are any diaries for 1941 to Feb 1943 and Nov 1944 to 1945". Well 11 Btn were not formed until March 43, so from then till Sep 43, when A coy were involved in the Cos op, and as they ceased to exist as a functioning Battalion after Arnhem, would ther be any WD info from late Sep 44 to thier offical disbandment in Nov 45?