Vehicle and Formation Signs info request (And some really nice 'Fresh' vehicle shots)

Hello all,

This is a continuation of a strand from a thread that can be found here:

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/people-ww2/46897-margaret-longueville-ambulance-despatch-driver-3.html#post531493

I would be grateful for any help that anyone can give in identifying the vehicles and signs/markings on the photos with links below.

http://sdrv.ms/OT8iam

http://sdrv.ms/OT8o1H What is the "clover leaf" marking here?

http://sdrv.ms/PXkVOA

http://sdrv.ms/PXkYK9

http://sdrv.ms/OT8uXh

http://sdrv.ms/PXl7xa

http://sdrv.ms/OT8CWL

http://sdrv.ms/OT8F4N

http://sdrv.ms/OT8G8T

http://sdrv.ms/OT8NkO

http://sdrv.ms/N44XiK

http://sdrv.ms/TBWn2J

Many thanks in anticipation

 

Hi Adrian,

The black and white checkered sign means vehicle training, or a driving school. These are all (beautiful !!!) pictures from a driving school I guess.

Some "similar" pictures, with a well known young lady:





Jan

 

Here's another one, from a motorcycle training video:



Jan

 

Hi Adrian,

The black and white checkered sign means vehicle training, or a driving school. These are all (beautiful !!!) pictures from a driving school I guess.

Some "similar" pictures, with a well known young lady:





Jan

Does the red 'L' mean Learner as it does today?

 

Adrian, these are beautiful images. Thank you for sharing them.

The first one that I can clearly identify is the impressed saloon car, census M7075, marked 'Chester' - This fits exactly as it is the Red rose of Lancashire in the centre of a St David's cross and indicates Western Command.

Western Command's HQ was at Chester and it was responsible for Wales and the bordering North Western and North Midlands counties.

 

The refuelling picture at Lichfield has no markings but it's a stunning reference quality photograph of a rather new looking ambulance based on the Morris 12hp. It has census number A180812.

Bart Vanderveen used a photograph of A180891 in his 'Fighting Vehicles Directory' and mentions that the body was by Composite Vehicles Ltd. and they were mainly used by Home Guard and RASC. It could take 8 sitting or 4 stretcher patients (not in any great comlfort, I imagine).

 

What a selection of Ambulances ! Not my speciality at all, I'm afraid

At the back looks like a Morris-Commerical CS11, followed by a pre-war type Morris-Commercial bearing an RASC serial number.

In front of that looks to be a Bedford with an RN registration followed by the Morris 12HP mentioned above and the Royal Enfield SF

The prancing horse appears on most of these vehicles so it must be an official marking.

These idents are strictly E.&O.E. but someone will be able to confirm.

 

Jan,
Many thanks for the info on the checkerboard markings. I have another picture which has the words "11 VRD" in a white label above the checker board. Does VRD mean "Vehicle Reserve Depot"?
Best wishes,
Adrian

 

The refuelling picture at Lichfield has no markings but it's a stunning reference quality photograph of a rather new looking ambulance based on the Morris 12hp. It has census number A180812.

Bart Vanderveen used a photograph of A180891 in his 'Fighting Vehicles Directory' and mentions that the body was by Composite Vehicles Ltd. and they were mainly used by Home Guard and RASC. It could take 8 sitting or 4 stretcher patients (not in any great comlfort, I imagine).
Many thanks for this! What is the vehicle census number? Is it the military "number plate"!

 

Adrian, is that another Quernmore Park photo ? There is an online reference to No.11 Advanced Ordnance Depot at Quernmore Park. Vehicle Depots were an ordnance responsibility.

BVD is certainly Base Vehicle Depot. Your suggestion of Vehicle Reserve Depot sounds entirely plausible.

The 'census' number is indeed the military registration serial. It is in no way linked to a civilian registration though. The first letter indicates the class of vehicle - 'A' for ambulance; 'C' for motorcycle; 'L' for trucks and 'M' for cars and light utilities, etc.

 

Adrian, is that another Quernmore Park photo ? There is an online reference to No.11 Advanced Ordnance Depot at Quernmore Park. Vehicle Depots were an ordnance responsibility.

BVD is certainly Base Vehicle Depot. Your suggestion of Vehicle Reserve Depot sounds entirely plausible.

The 'census' number is indeed the military registration serial. It is in no way linked to a civilian registration though. The first letter indicates the class of vehicle - 'A' for ambulance; 'C' for motorcycle; 'L' for trucks and 'M' for cars and light utilities, etc.

Rich, Although it may not be in the group of negatives marked QP (for Quernmore Park), I think that was taken in the area - QP is near Lancaster??.

If I rescan some of these with greater resolution and care, it may give more detail. I am intrigued by the "clover leaf" marking on some of the other photos. Any idea?

I have also been trying to track down the actual buildings shown in the photos - it is difficult!

Thanks for your help!

 

Adrian, the 'clover leaf' is a puzzle. It's not in the correct place for a 'formation sign' and has rather a temporary look. I'm inclined to suspect a sign used for an exercise or column.

The actual formation sign on those vehicles is on the nearside wing of the Bedford or central on the doors of the water tanker (I loved the spud-bashing by the way).

It is a vague design inside the white ring. I wonder if it's red on green as the colours are hardly distinguishable. The diagonally split Arm of Service marking looks to be the red / green of the Royal Army Service Corps.

A higher res. scan might help. I keep thinking that I can see the design but not quite...if the sign is a familiar one then a small clue is enough but those associated with training establishments and depots are on the obscure side.

I've looked again at the sign and I think that I can see the red rose on a green stem of 55th West Lancashire Division. This sign was on a khaki background. I can find no reference to a white surround but it seems logical if it was being applied to a khaki painted vehicle. They served only in the UK, ultimately as a training formation so it seems possible. The tanker is a 15cwt Bedford, by the way.

 

Adrian,
Hope you don't mind - but I've added a little more to the thread title, so other vehicle-ists, who may not follow formation signs, might be more likely see these cracking shots you've put up.
Really good stuff.

~A

No Prob! Many thanks for the help!

 

I will post another picture, which seems to show that the formation badge was for the 587 CMTC (Civilian Mechanised Transport Company?). This is the writing above the RASC(?) Flash

The "clover leaf" also appears to be multi-coloured - I will try and post a detail.

In the meantime I found this:
Mechanised Transport Corps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Adrian, is that another Quernmore Park photo ? There is an online reference to No.11 Advanced Ordnance Depot at Quernmore Park. Vehicle Depots were an ordnance responsibility.

BVD is certainly Base Vehicle Depot. Your suggestion of Vehicle Reserve Depot sounds entirely plausible.

The 'census' number is indeed the military registration serial. It is in no way linked to a civilian registration though. The first letter indicates the class of vehicle - 'A' for ambulance; 'C' for motorcycle; 'L' for trucks and 'M' for cars and light utilities, etc.

Just a minor, perhaps pedantic, correction; L was for Lorries (over 15 cwt); Trucks (up to 15 cwt) carried Z.

The pre-war Morris ambulance next to the CS11/30F is a Morris CD ambulance - not unknown in the BEF.

The first image, with the squared sign is a Bedford OX 30 cwt; the one with the man lying under the engine looks like a Bedford OY 3 tonner.

Chris

 

Chris, Thanks for the info - I have up dated the image labels on Sky Drive

 

Just a minor, perhaps pedantic, correction; L was for Lorries (over 15 cwt); Trucks (up to 15 cwt) carried Z.

Chris

Thanks for this info Chris! I have often wondered what the difference was between a truck and a lorry... Now I know!

Jan

 

I will post another picture, which seems to show that the formation badge was for the 587 CMTC (Civilian Mechanised Transport Company?). This is the writing above the RASC(?) Flash

The "clover leaf" also appears to be multi-coloured - I will try and post a detail.

In the meantime I found this:
Mechanised Transport Corps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here are the pictures:

http://sdrv.ms/Ore0QW

http://sdrv.ms/Ore5nG Big File! Tif 37 MB

http://sdrv.ms/S1cs14 Tif 1.6MB

http://sdrv.ms/SbzSex Detail from another photo of the Bedford showing Fleur de lys on nearside front wing.

If anyone would like smaller files - let me know.