Stalin's ignorance

Discussion in 'The Eastern Front' started by J_McAllister, Jun 15, 2006.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

     
  2. BulgarianSoldier

    BulgarianSoldier Senior Member

    The Soviet Red Army do any move aganst any war logic thats why germans doesent know where to expect them and thats why the Russans win in the eastern front.We must agree that Stalin wasnt the best tactic in the history but he was respected like good he win the people love and this is the strategy about wining.It far beter to be loved by the people and anyone to be scared by you.I must say that the Russian best tactics were maybe by Vassilevski and Jukov who made operation "Bagration".

    Thanks about it Owen :)
     
  3. Marina

    Marina Senior Member

    We must agree that Stalin wasnt the best tactic in the history but he was respected like good he win the people love and this is the strategy about wining.It far beter to be loved by the people and anyone to be scared by you.I must say that the Russian best tactics were maybe by Vassilevski and Jukov who made operation "Bagration".

    Thanks about it Owen :)

    I don't suppose the millions starved to death by the collectivisation policy, or the countless citizens purged, or enslaved in the archipelagos, loved him much.He ruled by Terror, not love.
     
  4. lancesergeant

    lancesergeant Senior Member

    The mass of the officer corps executed, Trotsky murdered so that he could take power. Lenin didn't want Stalin to take power. The purges of his own populace. His own close entourage and escorts didn't dare approach him alone. The inner circle didn't dare argue with him in case they disappeared without trace. What happened to Koniev for instance. I can vaguely recall Zhukov or another disputing some point with Stalin. Dissidents and political opposition shipped off to the gulags. Look in the history books for recorded cases of officers in arguments with Stalin. In his eyes life was cheap as long as it wasn't his own. If he was beloved by his people why was his monument/grave disinterred from the Kremlin and placed outside the walls. Kruschev did this only after Stalin was gone. He decried Stalin and the Politburo sided with him. They didn't dare do it until he was gone -if they weren't living in fear of him why didn't they do it before 1953. Funny with Stalin gone that Beria soon faded from the picture. The country lived in greater fear from Stalin than Hitler.

    Those Russian soldiers who were captured by the Germans, when released by their own side they were castigated, outcasts. Some sent to the gulags. Perhaps the reason for the lack of emphasis on the numbers murdered by Stalin, lies with the fact that the western allies didn't want to upset him. The acts carried out on his orders don't come across to me as the actions of a benevolent leader but one ruling by fear It can be said that it was deperate times at the time of Stalingrad, Kursk, Leningrad etc justifying desperate measures and means of carrying them out - this may hold some weight in the circumstances concerned.

    Look at the family man - have you read how he treated his family. He brought the country through the greatest challenge it was and probably ever see or experience. How much better would the armed forces have been without the purges ? speculation, I believe they would have losses but not to the extent of what happened. He only did one thing that was selfless and that was when the Germans were on the doorsteps of Moscow, he stayed and didn't move east with the rest.

    If these are at odds with some peoples experiences or opinions, please put them on the forum. We are all here to learn and be educated, not listen to the pre - prepared party line. I for one get sick of listening to some who say that the West only contribute this or only did that and Russia's substantial contribution to the war is unappreciated or damped down.I can only interpret the facts as it is written in the history books and film footage the West has access to.

    If there is a secret history or the Russian are being underappreciated, put cold hard facts to redress the balance. The fact is that the majority of contributors to the forum are westerners and so the majority of the contributions will relate to the western allies, with the effect that the Eastern bloc feel they have been left out. Express your belief in your country's contribution through your own writings and not what the party line says producing clones.
     
  5. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    It's been interesting reading about soviet technical planning and design meetings recently, it seems that Stalin would often lean towards the side of the designers over his appointed minister in whatever field was in question. If a technician could gather his courage to speak out (big 'If') Stalin at least seemed to show a good eye for a useful weapon.
    I've already stated that I think the military purges were disastrous but it could also be said that later Stalin had the sense to allow his commanders to make their own decisions, he seemed at least aware of his own limitations as a military thinker as the war progressed.
     
  6. BulgarianSoldier

    BulgarianSoldier Senior Member

    Maria we talk about Stalin at ww2 not after this.
    Lancesegreant no doubt that Stalin was evil but after anythink he was loved.
    He made the Russian soldiers to realise for what they are fighting.
    Do you know what the chechens terorist do with the prisoners? They cut there heads.And how do you think the soldiers can avoide this ? Never Surender this is not even a single options.For the Soviet Red Army to surender to the germans is the worst option.Even i prefer to put a bullet in my head but not to surender to the enemy.In a war you must realise and understand the fact that your already dead.Those thinks about "no step backwards" and "secrifase attacks" are true but they are normal for people who are fully ready to give there lifes for the motherland.The Russians were ready to defend there motherland.You see those soviet soldiers they are people just like you they have famely just like some of you people ,but the germans killed some of there brothers,sisters or fathers even there friends.
    People who lose so muc think that there isnt anything left to lose i expiriance this lose of friend and i know what is it.Thats one of the thinks why the russans made those secriface attacks and so on.The East Europen patriotisam is maybe one of the bigest reasons.Lets look baaack in the BG around 1875 when the Liberation of Bulgaria take place.The Bulgarian soldiers were surounded by Ottomans in a mountain called "Shipka" a vital place for the whole liberation a battle that cannot be lose by the Bulgarians.The Bulgarians fight agaist the Turks for a days without stoping the battle was really bloody the Bulgarians left without ammo and they use there knifes,they trow rocks and the bodys of there dead comrades.But they didnt retreat because this was the most vital battle for all the battles for those 500years.And we win.Thanks to this brevary and secriface ONLY for the coutry for fatherland and for the Liberation of the coutry.This is a small fact for the patriotisam in the eastern coutrys.If those people didnt done this if they didnt manige to win this battle maybe my name would be Ahmed and i would be from Turkey.The same is with the Russians.Facts or secriface or not they done a great job and they have beat the OUTNUMBER german army 10milion German Soldiers agaist 5,5milion Russan soldiers to defend the Soviet Union.Russians only outnumber the Germans with the tanks 6000 German tanks and 12000 Russan tanks.And Stalin was one of the people responsible for this great win and this breavery secriface for the USSR.
    What more can i say exept that some of you (marina) understand me wrong. I dont protect Stalin but for good or not he is one of the responsible about the win in ww2 !
     
  7. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    I don't suppose the millions starved to death by the collectivisation policy, or the countless citizens purged, or enslaved in the archipelagos, loved him much.He ruled by Terror, not love.

    you were brainwashed by western propoganda, lady.
    and how else we, russians, could be ruled but with terror when the tough times come?
    the nation prone to anarchy, the nation whose people are accustomed to, all of the sudden, give up a work in a middle of the week and go on a binge needs an authoritarian rule.
     
  8. BulgarianSoldier

    BulgarianSoldier Senior Member

    Absolutley T37 thanks that you remaind me.
    Not before long time i have explane to Kity how befor 1989 on our TV and Radio everyone told us how bad is in your coutrys.We ware suppuse to go in somethink like cinema and we watch your coutrs the poor citys and ghetos.And they told us that this is the west and if we wet the west come then we may be gone.The same think happand in western coutrys.
     

Share This Page