In the begining of the war the German people went about there everyday lifes as normal, except they were bombarded with nazi propoganda and war drills. The propoganda told the German people about the war and how the German Army is winning and that Germany will expand soon. Anyone else can post too.
According to my Great Aunt (who didn't have a particularly good war - losing both brothers, a parent and her fiance, along with her home), her happiest memories come from the period 1933 - 41 and she still looks back fondly on this period (when it's a sunny day, she describes it as "Hitler Weather" for some reason(?) ). At this period, as an ordinary young woman, living a pretty ordinary life, in a run-of-the-mill small town, she wasn't much affected by the Nazis or their propaganda. She had much more important things to occupy her mind. (Things changed dramatically later, though). As for life in Germany in the immediate aftermath of the war, she's got no idea as she got out and married a British soldier, living in the UK ever since. The only experience that I've got first hand accounts of is Germany in circa 1949-50, when my father was stationed there, and he recalls that things were better (around Osnabruck) there, than back home in Lancashire (availability of products, etc.). B.
After the war Germany was split up into sections, the Russians took the largest piece. The Yanks got the areas of Bavaria, Hessen and parts of Austria. The Tommies got that areas of Germany that bordered Belgium, the Netherlands and Denmark, they also got a small amount in Austria. The Frenchies got the areas that of Germany that bordered France, Switizerland and Italy. The Russians took much of Eastern Germany, Poland was a Communist State under the command of Russia. Berlin was a joint venture, Western Berlin was controlled mainly by the USA/UK, Eastern Berlin was walled in by the Commies/Russians. It depends on where in Germany you were after the war, what sector you where in and more importantly who was in control of that sector. The USA/UK instituted new laws(Curfews, no weapons) and were generally more helpfull then the others. The Russians were the worst, they walled in there sectors and prevented most refugees from escaping, unless you had certian papers like a POW pass or if you were on official business there. I have done a lot research on the matter. Ulm, Germany where some of my family is from was in a USA Sector and reported having a peacefull experience.
Hello Danmark Have you done any research in to Russian 'concentration' camps in Eastern Germany aqfter the war and the work the NKVD did there?
I have done some research on the Russian "Concentration Camps", but they were not all in Eastern Germany. Most were in Siberia, the Ukraine and Eastern Russia. The camps that were in Eastern Germany were used by the Germans for their concentration camps. Once the Russians invaded Germany they would round up the German Soldiers and put them in camps to be POWs. Most German POWs were considered war criminials in the eyes of their captors, the Russians. When Russian took over Berlin they would tell the German POWs to take off their left shirt leave. The Russians would look for the tattooed/branded mark of the Waffen-SS/SS, if they found that mark they would execute the German POW on site. The Russians would also look for the insignia of the German Sniper/Marksmen, an oval shaped pouch with an Owl or an Eagle in the middle of it with two ribbons on the sides. They would shot those German POWs on site too. Most executions were done by the NKVD or the political branch of the Soviet Army. The German POWs that did make it to the Russian camps were forced to work hard labor in factories on farms. The Russian Concentration Camps that were in Eastern Germany after the war were mainly for nazis or nazi supporters. There is not alot of info on the Russian Concentration Camps. but here are some sites. http://www.nkvd.org/ http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSnkvd.htm
There is a difference between the Soviet camps set up in Germany after the war and of those of the Gulag in the Soviet Union, the Gulag was for manufacturing, coal and gold mining and also logging. Whilst the camps in Germany were set up for the concentration of certain people not for murder. The camps in germany did not just include Nazi supporters but also communist party members other political organisations and any body who could pose a threat to the Soviet Union and innocent people that were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. The NKVD were brutal and they did shoot German POW's and also 4000 Polish POW's in the Kaytn forest in Eastern Poland the NKVD did not massacre just any average German soldier, any Germans which were captured were either given amnesties, sent to a transit camp and then to a Gulag or POW camp in the Soviet Union. Although the Russian army's behaviour when it entered Germany was barbaric but I suppose that the Russian's just saw it as their right since Germany had invaded their Motherland
Gulag was a smart way to combine 'manufacturing' and elimination of people. The Russians werent wasting time to shoot all 'traitors' and 'enemys of country'. Shoot few millions of people. For what ? Use them. They used them as workers. I was their redemption for their 'sins'. And if they didnt survived the work... well the way to redemption is hard. A little bit cynic isnt ? And about Katyn and the rest. It was about 15.000 polish officers, policemen, MP and other formations. Stalin ordered to kill about 25.000 people. Oh I shouldnt say Russians, I should say NKWD. Simple Russians were terrorized by NKWD as same as people from other nations. Barbaric behaviour of russians soldiers... well with what the Germans did to their country and with political police behind their back. As Gustaw Herling-Grudzinski wrote in his book 'Another world' "Man cant be human in nonhuman conditions"
After Stalin's death in 1953 the communist party saw the Gulag as more of a drain on the economy and it was not profitable so the 'thaw' happened with political prisoners being released. By the early 1950's over 2,000,000 people were in the Gulag system or exiles.
well, about that (concentration camps), more than 200 000 croats were killed during "krizhni put" (i don't knoe how to translate it, it means something like death march). it started at bleiburg when the mass of more than 200 000 people (soldiers, civilians and others) tried to surrender to british army, forced by the fear of incoming partisan killing army. when they reached british occupation zone, they where coldly returned to partisans which executed about 30 000 of them right on that site. after that, rest of people was sent on long journey throgh ex.yu (more than 2 500 km) where they were tortured, and at the end - killed. only few of them survived. this was a short story of post-war executing in, now ex. yugoslavia.
I think the British Army sis kind of the same thing with Ukranian cossaks that had sought refugee from the Red Army in Southern Germany and Austria. The British Army forced thousands of Cossaks back to the Soviet Union where they were prisoned or executed on Stalin's orders. Not one of our finest hours!
If you can find a copy, the Last Days of the Reich, James Lucas, Arms and Armour Press (1986) gives a very good account of the end of the war in Germany and a few days afterwards. It includes accounts of atrocities in Yugoslavia, etc. There are a couple of interesting photographs of German police and military police co-operating with British forces before the official German final surrender. For instance, two armed German military police directing traffic for the British advance into Schleswig on 3/4 May. You can see two British soldiers in an armoured car looking back at them in total amazement. Another picture shows two ordinary German police in discussion with British military police and studying a map prior to the British advance into Hamburg
One other comment on postwar Germany is that my grandmother was in charge of censoring mail in the British sector of Berlin (as she spoke German and Yiddish) so my mother, then a teenager, went to Germany to visit her and they did some of the surviving tourist spots in Germany and Italy. Her chief impression of occupied Germany was that everywhere, everyone was stacking bricks, the remains of blasted cities. The cities themselves were just rubble and gutted walls. She wondered if anyone would ever live there again or if they would just build a new city nearby. And that cigarettes were the real currency, not the occupation marks or old Reichmarks.
Lamsdorf/Lambinowice, was one of the largest complexes of POW camps run by the Wehrmacht during the war. In 1945 the labour camp was created here by Polish communist authorities and was active until October 1946. It was located not far from the former Nazi POW camp, and it was given an official name "The Labour Camp in Lambinowice". The camp was to be administrated by the local administration, but in reality it was under unrestricted supervision of the security organs and militia. The camp performed several functions. It was a working, repressive, isolating camp for displaced people. In general about five thousand people went through this camp. The most numerous group was the one consisted of Germans who came from thirty nearby towns and who after being kept there were to be dislodged deep into Germany. Such a situation fulfilled decision of the winning World - Powers which was taken during the Potsdam Conference. Such an action was thought to solve the problem of displaced Poles who, violently and under constraint were dislodged from the eastern territories of the Republic of Poland by the soviet authorities. Those Poles began to arrive in great numbers to Opole and Silesia in April 1945. The people who considered themselves Polish (polish Silesians) were kept in the camps as well. The history of the camp gained an ill reputation. Mainly because of the illegal actions, including murders, taken by the part of the camp personnel towards the people kept there. The camp became the place of death and suffering for many people because of the starvation, emaciation, horrible living condition and diseases [especially the epidemic of tyfus (sorry, but I don’t know English word for this disease) which lasted from February till May 1946]. The estimated data concerning the death rate differ from one another. According to the newest assignations, approximately one thousand or one thousand five hundred people died there. They were buried in mass or single graves. For decades the case of this particular camp was the "taboo" in Poland. Authorities of the Polish People's Republic decided to hide its history behind the tight "curtain of silence". The public opinion did not even know about the trial of the first camp commander and few camp functionaries, which took place in 1958 and 1959. Finally, in 1989 when the transformation of the Polish political system began it was possible to reveal the truth. Another infamous camp was situated in Swietochlowice/ Eintrachthütte (former subcamp of KL Auschwitz). It’s commander, Salomon Morel is responsible for dead of about 1500 people. He is prosecuted by Polish Commission for the Prosecution of Crimes against the Polish Nation but Israeli authorities refuses his extradition.
Is there any remaining military records of German POWs that were held in Russia? I'm trying to find information on my GreatGrandfather. He was from Ulm and served in the German Army and he didn't return from Russia until late 1948-1949. Where would be a good place to start looking for military records if they survived? Nicole Ladera njladera@aol.com
The Russian government asked the Hoover Institution on War, Revolution, and Peace to go through their archives and make some sense of that pile of paper, as I understand. How much of the Stalin-era records may have survived is certainly one of the $64,000 questions, I'm afraid, but I would start there.
Oh I shouldnt say Russians, I should say NKWD. Simple Russians were terrorized by NKWD as same as people from other nations. Not actually. As in all totalitarian states (i.e. Nazi Germany and stalinist USSR), the repression system couldn't work without ample collaboration from below. Trying to split SS/NKVD from the German or Soviet peoples is a frequent but grave error. well, about that (concentration camps), more than 200 000 croats were killed during "krizhni put" (i don't knoe how to translate it, it means something like death march). it started at bleiburg when the mass of more than 200 000 people (soldiers, civilians and others) tried to surrender to british army, forced by the fear of incoming partisan killing army. when they reached british occupation zone, they where coldly returned to partisans which executed about 30 000 of them right on that site. after that, rest of people was sent on long journey throgh ex.yu (more than 2 500 km) where they were tortured, and at the end - killed. only few of them survived. Thanks for the information, Strangelove. It is just another example of what happens in extremely brutal wars. The 'attrocities' of the Soviet soldiers in Germany are perfectly explained by four years of annihilation and reckless war, as the Serbs and Croatians partisan war. Let's just remember that over 2 million people died during the partisan campaigns.
Now I have to add that some of the best sources to find out about the German Home Front is Sir Ian Kershaw's The Hitler Myth, a must for all researchers. Hitler was well aware that the internal or the home front of the nation recquired a particular attention, since he believed that WWI had been lost there, betrayed by Jews and communists. The German people was never much enthusiastic about the war. There was cheering when Poland and France were defeated, but the people were always seeking for a quick and easy end of the conflict, and it had all to do with material matters: rationing and bombing. Although the Germans in WWII never starved, as they did in WWI, and had quite a considerable deal of goods till the very end of the war, the constant bombing of their cities and towns destroyed the scarce faith and thrust they had in the Nazi Party. However, Hitler's almightiness and impecable reputation lasted all the way until late 1944, when the material privations suffered by the people were too great. Specially after Stalingrad, the Hitler myth started dwindling and losing force. As I said, Hitler gave extreme priority to the German Home Front: he refused to impose a total war economy on the Germans until 1943, the repressive atmosphere was given emphasis since September 1939 and the 'cleansing' of German Jews had priority above everything else. Since September 1939 until winter 1943 the German people actively co-operated and supported the régime's efforts of racial and repression policies, after that the co-operation and support were reduced and started disappearing (never completely) little by little. Then, in this circumstance, the régime became much more savage and reckless: the Gestapo, Kripo, Schupo and all police and seccurity forces (closely supported by the Nazi Party, the Armed Forces, the Hitler Youth and even the Volkssturm) started imposing death and concentration camp sentences on their own, without further investigation or consideration. By 1945 thousands of people were summarily executed or shot in the spots by all the above-mentioned organisations because of the slightiest offences: the Home Front was desintegrating rapidly and inevitably, but the régime refused to accept reality and did all what it could to delay this conclusion.
It's absolutely true that the Germans, for all of their police-state apparatus and repressiveness, never mobilized their nation as fully as the British, Americans, and Soviets. Steinway went on making pianos until 1944. Millions of German girls worked as maids, and millions of women did not work at all. In 1941, Germany produced 11,000 aircraft. Britain produced 20,100. In 1942, Germany built 14,000 planes. Britain produced 23,600. In 1943, Germany produced 25,200 planes. Britain built 26,500. Only when Speer horsewhipped the German economy in 194, speweing out 39,600 aircraft, did they outpace Britain's 26,500 aircraft. Numbers from Purnell's Illustrated History of WW2, Volume 7, No. 7. Hitler intended to wage a series of short, quick, victorious wars. After engulfing one country, there would be a break in the action to re-fuel, re-arm, and digest the conquered (like a snake), before attacking again. That theory fell in the face of Churchillian determination.
Yes. One primary cause of defeat to the Germans was because of their lack of military mobilization in their homefront. The people simply didn't care because the government didn't make them care. One wonders what would have happened if Germany fully mobelized themselves. The contrast was their allies, the Japanese, whose military fanatisism reached all corners of Japan.
Originally posted by Kaiser@Mar 27 2005, 12:58 AM Yes. One primary cause of defeat to the Germans was because of their lack of military mobilization in their homefront. The people simply didn't care because the government didn't make them care. One wonders what would have happened if Germany fully mobelized themselves. The contrast was their allies, the Japanese, whose military fanatisism reached all corners of Japan. [post=32592]Quoted post[/post] The Japanese did indeed mobilize everyone -- they even tore up lampposts and streetcar tracks to ue for the war effort. We've seen the photographs of women and 10-year-old boys being trained to attack American invaders with pikes and ceramic hand grenades. That was one of the reasons the Japanese used POWs as slave labor -- according to their grim abacus, POWs could be the laborers in mines and factories, even if they died on the job, as they were available bodies and dishonored gaijin. Grim stuff.
