Cipher Operator Cpl. Harold Spence 1st British Airborne Corps Signals

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Jonesy123, Aug 23, 2021.

  1. Jonesy123

    Jonesy123 Junior Member

    Hi guys,
    need your help...

    Too keep a very long story short, more than 6 years ago I stumbled on a crashsite of a glider very close to my home. I searched for many years to try and find which glider it was and who its occupants were.
    But last year I had a major breakthrough and then it all went very fast... I was able to identify the glider and all its passengers.


    The glider crash-landed on September 17th 1944 and the passengers were soldiers from 101st Airborne Division but they had a special attachee, a British Cipher operator with the name 'Harold Spence'.
    I also was able to find all relatives of the American passengers and even got in contact with one who is still alive today!
    I received lots of information and pictures including the detailed written account of this cipher operator.
    (it seems the account was also partially used in some books like "HELL’S HIGHWAY")


    Since they landed in enemy territory and surrendering was out of the question, they had to escape. They succeeded but two Americans were killed. That is why I want to make a little monument near the crash site.
    I have details and pictures of all passengers but sadly I'm still not able to trace down the relatives of Harold Spence.
    After a lot of research and dozens of emails I can't find any details of him which might help me to locate this hero or his relatives.

    Can you guys help me in any way to find more information about Corporal Harold Spence?

    I added a snapshot of a movie that was made on September 17 at Ramsbury when they were walkting towards their glider. The man in front is his good friend Cpl. Sellers which had a similar mission but who sadly died when his glider also crashed that day. Memorial Glider of 101st Airborne Signal Company - Mariekerke - TracesOfWar.com


    Thanks!

    Cpl. Spence & Cpl. Sellers.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
  2. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Cannot find Harold Spence, but Frederick Sellers is possibly this man. He was originally in Royal Artillery and transferred to Signals 28/03/1944.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Deleted as down the wrong rabbit hole.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
  4. Jonesy123

    Jonesy123 Junior Member



    • Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. Harold Spence did survive the war. His good friend Sellers was killed.
     
  5. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Jonesy123,

    OK, hopefully the sleuths here can help in tracing him, although with only a name that will be difficult - unless you have some clues.

    Remainder of text deleted as down the wrong rabbit hole.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
  6. Jonesy123

    Jonesy123 Junior Member

    No I'm looking for the relatives of Corporal Harold Spence :), the title is correct.
    Frederick Arthur Sellers is a different story...

    Harold Spence survived and he wrote a detailed summary of events after te war... Since he wasn't killed and he wasn't an officer, it is very hard to find any more information about him..
    that is why I am asking help...
    I realy would love to get in contact with his relatives because I can show them were his story took place.
     
  7. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    I've given your quest a lot more thought and have just tried using www.familysearch,org limiting the birth year range to 1920-1926. That did not help.

    The only options left are in my opinion: 1) write to the Royal Signals Museum and seek their help, not research, but an appeal for help; 2) same with the affiliated https://royalsignals.org/royal-signals-association; 3) try: Facebook Groups

    Sadly, as most who knew him are now deceased, all these are a "long shot" hoping they will advertise your quest or use a story that gets a response.
     
  8. Jonesy123

    Jonesy123 Junior Member

    Hi, I figured out his serial number was 1464621. Could this help?
     
  9. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Jonesy123,

    Now you have his Service / Army Number applying for his record with the Army Personnel Office, Glasgow is possible. That would provide a definitive account of his service. PM with details will follow.

    Reading the thread again, where did the glider crash on 17/9/1944 - months after D-Day? Followed the link in the 1st post, they were part of Operation Market Garden - my apologies, a date not embedded in my memory. Having a British cipher operator with the 101st Airborne makes sense, to receive and send signals - may be to enable air support and even artillery.

    Try the small number of links returned using: "cipher operator" + "101 Airborne" and with a few more links (some duplicates) use: "cipher operator" + "operation market garden" for any clues.

    Perhaps Paradata could help with the role of such men? I cannot think of a low-level British Army cipher historian and the known historians usually focus on GCHQ / Bletchley Park. Worth writing an email / letter to the Royal Signals Association asking for help.

    If you keep on searching here it can pay dividends. Within a long opening, single post I found this, which could indicate what their role was:
    From: AIR SUPPORT SIGNALS UNIT and SPECIAL SIGNALS GROUP I would suggest you copy the post and remove all the organizational lists, then try to get your head round it!

    This may be helpful: "Operator Signals" - Trade Role and Responsibilities

    This is an online book about a Royal Signals Other Rank, whose 'Service Trade' was Cipher Operator (High Grade), again perhaps it can help. Note he reached that grade late in WW2, even post-war as the reference is April 1946 and as I only read a little no airborne link! Fred Cornwell’s War Using Control F with cipher may shorten the time needed.
     
  10. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    On find my past that number comes back as Gunner N. Macdonald, wounded 17.8.44. 61 Anti Tank.
     
  11. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    51highland,

    That would be a snag then. Jonesy123 has not stated where he found the number.
     
  12. Jonesy123

    Jonesy123 Junior Member

    SorryI My mistake, that was the number found in some American records. Received an email from MOD Personnel Records (Access Service Team) that the right serial number is 14661421.
     

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