Hi all, Before my uncle was posted to 38 Squadron he served with 21 Operational Training Unit. First of all, does anyone have a copy of the ORB for them? Second, am I correct in thinking that OTU's often contributed to sorties? If so did 21 OTU? Don
24 OTU at Honeybourne...my local bomber field...certainly contributed to live ops...And leaflet dropping..Didn't the first so called 1000 bomber raid use the OTU aircraft that were available to them...?
Hi Donnie, Yes OTU's did contribute to Operations, but only as part of the main force in 1942, after that you may find the odd one or two Nickel raids but nothing dropped in anger. All 1942 30-31 May Cologne 1-2 June Essen 25-26 June Bremen 28-29 July Hamburg 31 July-1st Aug Dusseldorf 10-11 Sept Dusseldorf 13-14 Sept Bremen 16-17 Sept Essen You don't say what timeframe you are looking at but if your uncle wasn't at 21 OTU around those dates it's highly unlikely that he flew on any Ops whilst there. Regards Pete
Hi urqh Are any buildings still standing? My grandad did his OTU training there and at it's sister airfield at Long Marston.
Pete, Uncle was posted to 21 OTU before he was at 5 Middle East Training School this being his last posting before going to 38 Squadron in July 1942. I sadly don't have dates as they are not included in his records. So he was posted to his unit in July '42 so I guess he was at 21 OTU late '41 early '42? I did find a source that before passing out of 21 OTU you had to do one flight over enemy territory, don't know how true that is? Don
That's correct. I have some OTU ORB's mentioning the crews made a flight over enemy territory, while a screened pilot, WO and AG were added to the crew. Later in 1942 OTU crews did take part in the major raids snailer mentioned above. And there were off course the Nickel raids.
Doesn't look like the OTU ORBs have been digitized yet which is a shame. Out of interest, if an airman took part in a raid as part of an OTU would he then qualify for say the Air Crew Europe Star? Don
His graduation Op was 25/26 June to Bremen in Wellington DV838 coded W. Image from AIR29/665 - Copyright TNA Regards Ross
They haven't. But great to see Ross was able to provide you a copy of the 25/26 June page. The MoD-website mentions about the Air Crew Europe Star: "Aircrew Europe Star was awarded for 60 additional days’ service in an RAF Unit engaged in operational flying over Europe from bases in the UK with at least one operational sortie."
Ross, That's incredible, I had never considered that he took part in a raid before reaching his squadron let alone the 1000 bomber raid over Bremen! Many thanks for the information. Another part to his story. All the best, Don.
Yes mate....Honeybourne has quite a few left...hangers and the shelters at Weston Subedge....Entrance by gate farmer does not mind as long as you don't bother sheep. Some Makrete huts or whatever...Lots of little conrete and brick objects near old runway...Its stll got the feel of a bomber base...Long Marston the subsiduary airfield is undergoing extensive knocking down and builiding...Its about to dissapear...Interestingly, around the Honeybourne site...at Bretforton, and near Offenham and Badsey there are spigot mortar bases or concrete slabs with plaques commemorating the home guard who were at the time included in the airfield defence plan. Offenham has a lovely old pillbox and under river avon at the ford...a lovely tank trap...Don't know about Lincoln being bomber country...Worcs Glos and Warwks, had enough in the air..even if training or conversion...The wellingtons at Moreton...Defford...secret squirels...Pershore/Throckmorton...Wick,Conberton GCI..and then there is was...Malvern...Early years of the war are fascinating times in this area...
Out of interest, when taking part in these raids what higher formation did 21 OTU belong too? And i take it they came under Bomber Command? Don
Having had a look 21 OTU came under 91 Group of Bomber Command. 91 Group appear to have suffered the worst losses on the Bremen raid. I think I will apply for the bomber command clasp for my uncle. He seems to fit the requirements. Don
Hi Pete, Do you know if No. 1 OTU contributed to Millenium II and if so, how many a/c? I've looked into this raid in terms of 59 Sqn and the Coastal Command contingent... Thanks, Lorenzo.
Hi Lorenzo, I've no idea I'm afraid, No 1 OTU was a Coastal OTU as far as I know and it's not really my area of research. Hopefully someone who knows the ins and outs of Coastal Command will be able to help. Purely guessing, I'd say no. Rgds Pete
This is an extract from Thomas Archibald West's log book who was the 'Air Gunner' on these flights. Does anyone have more information about them please? cheers Phil
Just like to thank you guys, Ross in particular for allowing me to view my fathers op on the Bremen raid ORB 25/26 June 1942, Wellington DV 811, Wop Sgt Eddie Coe, being trying to get this for years. Regarding the Air Crew Star, no chance, the medal people quote 60 days, starting from the graduating sortie, and this is the bone of contention, considered not fully trained up to this point, in Eddie's case, along with the rest of the rooky crew, who had already flown out to join 70 Sqn, 205 Group, MEF, and were bombing shipping in Tubruk harbour on the 31st July 1942, just over 30 days. This fully trained ruling was not in the original criteria and I believe was brought in to prevent other commands qualifying for the Star, after all it was Harris who needed the rooky crews to make his numbers up (1000 raids).The 2nd Pilot Sgt Cozens was the instructor on this Bremen raid, allowing Sgt Alan Wilch the skippers job. The Bomber Command Clasp can only be claimed for sorties after D-Day, 6th June 1944. Best wishes to all Gaz Coe.
Correction to above the Bomber Command Clasp is in place of a medal and awarded for any time during the war. Please accept my apologies, Gaz Coe.
My late father, James Anderton, was an instructor with 21 OTO at Moreton in Marsh 1941 - 1943. He was then posted to India in May 1944 to join 99 Squadron in September 1944. Sadly all his log books and flying times from April 1936 - September 1944 were destroyed during a typhoon on 10 Aoril 1944.