BEF losses (human) before the Dunkirk evacuation?

Discussion in '1940' started by spidge, May 25, 2007.

  1. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Tomorrow marks the 67th anniversary of the commencement of the Dunkirk evacuations.

    The numbers evacuated from Dunkirk and other beaches in following weeks numbered over 500,000.

    How many of the BEF were killed and how many became POW's?
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    PS Geoff, I think you'll find it's the 67th Anniversary. :)
    2007 - 1940 = 67.
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    When the operation ended 338,226 had been evacuated—308,888 of them in the ships under Admiral Ramsay's orders. Nearly 100,000 had been liefted from the beaches. Of the British 8,061 were casualties; of our Allies 1,230

    British troops (including 4,992 casualties) and 1,534 of our Allies were evacuated in British ships before Operation Dynamo started. To the Dynamo total of 338,226 there must therefore be added 27,936 making the grand total of those evacuated by this date 366,162.[27] Included in this number are 224,320 men of the British Expeditionary Force.



    HyperWar: The War in France and Flanders 1939–1940 [Chapter XVI]
     
  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    These 191,870 have to be added to the 366,162 who had been brought away by the conclusion of Operation Dynamo. A grand total of 558,032 had thus eluded the enemy's attempts to capture or destroy them; 368,491 of these were British troops

    HyperWar: The War in France and Flanders 1939–1940 [Chapter XXI]

    Still can't find break-down of casualties.
     
  6. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    PS Geoff, I think you'll find it's the 67th Anniversary. :)
    2007 - 1940 = 67.

    Hi Owen,

    The maths are not bad just the starting point. I was doing some research on 1939 on a couple of other discussion ideas for the forum and run it from there.

    Thanks for the pick up.
     
  7. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    HyperWar: The War in France and Flanders 1939–1940 [Chapter XXI]

    Still can't find break-down of casualties.

    Still could rank up there with one of the biggest mistakes of WW2 for Adolf.

    This is not in numbers of troops of course however the psycological aspect pushed by Churchill must have been catastrophic to Hitlers forward thinking after having this army at his mercy.

    THe mood within from his generals must also have been electric. They had to endure another 5 years of this type of leadership.
     
  8. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    HyperWar: The War in France and Flanders 1939–1940 [Chapter XXI]

    Still can't find break-down of casualties.

    Quote:
    These 191,870 have to be added to the 366,162 who had been brought away by the conclusion of Operation Dynamo. A grand total of 558,032 had thus eluded the enemy's attempts to capture or destroy them; 368,491 of these were British troops

    With these "rescued" numbers you would think the casualties to be significant.
     
  9. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Slightly puzzled by some of these figures, 'Blitzkrieg in the West' by ATB has BEF casualties for the whole campaign as 3,457 men killed & 13,602 wounded, a loss rate of c.1,700 casualties per division.
     
  10. stevew

    stevew Senior Member

    Only read the wikipedia link. Like the bit on what if, WW2 (and the time leading upto it) seems to have a lot of 'what ifs' IMHO, and this is another one
     
  11. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    seems to have a lot of 'what ifs' IMHO, and this is another one

    Hi Steve,

    "And this is another one". What does that refer to?
     
  12. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Slightly puzzled by some of these figures, 'Blitzkrieg in the West' by ATB has BEF casualties for the whole campaign as 3,457 men killed & 13,602 wounded, a loss rate of c.1,700 casualties per division.
    Thought I'd add all the figures from there:

    French; 92,000 killed, 250,000 wounded. c.3,500 casualties per division.
    BEF; 3,457 killed, 13,602 wounded. c.1,700 casualties per division.
    Dutch; 2,157 killed, 6,889 wounded. c.900 casualties per division.
    Belgian; 7,500 killed, 15,850 wounded. c.1000 casualties per division.

    Germany; 27,074 killed, 18,384 missing, 111,034 wounded. c.1,000 casualties per division.
    (Italy;631 killed, 2,631 wounded +2000 severe frostbite casualties.)
     
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    British dead for whole 1940 campaign must be over 5000 at least as the Dunkirk memorial has
    more than 4,500 casualties of the British Expeditionary Force who died in the campaign of 1939-40 and who have no known grave.

    CWGC :: Cemetery Details
     
  14. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    From Dunkirk Fight to The Last Man
    page 506.

    British casualties.

    Killed and Died of Wounds. 11 014
    Wounded 14 074
    Missing/POW 41 338
    TOTAL: 66 426
    Figures from F.A.E. Crew, The Army Medical Services: Volume 1 London 1953.


    Guns destroyed/damaged/left in France: 2472 out of 2794 shipped to France.
    Vehicles ditto : 63 879 of 68 618
    RAF lost 931 planes including 477 fighters.
    Royal Navy lost or had damaged 25 destroyers
    At least 170 ships & boats lost during Evacuation.
     
  15. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Other Natioanlities listed in same book are same as Adam posted.
    French
    Killed: around 90 000
    Wounded:around 200 000

    Belgian total 23 350

    Dutch total 9779

    German
    Killed 27 074
    Wounded 111 034
    Missing 18 384
    Planes lost 1284.
     
  16. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    I am surprised by the amount of casualties in the French Campaign. That is some amount of troops lost!
     
  17. Kyt

    Kyt Very Senior Member

    From Dunkirk Fight to The Last Man
    page 506.

    British casualties.

    Killed and Died of Wounds. 11 014


    Losses on the Lancastria (approx 3-4000) would make up about 30+% of those killed.
     
  18. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Chap on here citing an extra 3,267 MIA casualties for the BEF. Alongside Pallud's 'Blitkrieg' figure for deaths. With Kyt's Lancastria (and other naval/aerial?) losses we're perhaps getting nearer to that 11,000 figure. Strange that Pallud listed Missing for Germany seperately but not for the other nations.

    Now got to find where forum-bloke might have got his figure from...

    Casualty figures seem so easily distorted without some sort of temporal reference to when they were collated, or from where.
     
  19. Kyt

    Kyt Very Senior Member

    Fallen Soldiers2

    ...an estimated 1,400 Polish soldiers were killed in action (4,500 wounded) during the fall of France in May and June 1940...
     
  20. stevew

    stevew Senior Member

    Hi Steve,

    "And this is another one". What does that refer to?

    Should have been more specific.........Dunkirk, what if the Germans hadn't waited, and attacked and possibly cut off the route to Dunkirk, would consequent events turned out differently. How would the impact of losing the 350000+ BEF affected Britain.............

    Steve
     

Share This Page