Afternoon all, Does anyone know where I could find a pdf copy of the following War Office MTPs/ATIs: Military Training Pamphlet No.41 The Armoured Regiment, 1940 Army Training Instruction No.3 Handling of an Armoured Division, 1941 Middle East Training Pamphlet; No. 2, Part 8 Tactical Handling of Armoured Divisions in the M.E., 1942 Military Training Pamphlet No.41 The Tactical Handling of the Armoured Division and its Components Part 1 The Armoured Division, 1943 Military Training Pamphlet No.41 The Tactical Handling of the Armoured Division and its Components Part 2 The Armoured Regiment, 1943 I'm also looking for the MTP or ATI for the Infantry Battalion. Cheers.
They are a bit spread around...As far as THA goes; MTP No.41 is in WO231/202 ATI No.3 is in WO231/283 MTP No41, Part 1 and Part 2, are in WO231/128 I don't know that METP No.2, Part 8 is at Kew. It does appear to be in the AWM Library; Tactical handling of armoured divisions in the M.E. There are a couple of very early war (or pre-war) MTPs for the Infantry Battalion. In 1943 the more widely available Infantry Training series started to be issued, the aim being to have a booklet for pretty much each type of Platoon found in the Inf Bn, though the Pioneer one never came out, nor the one for the Rifle Company. It sort of depends on which period you're looking at as to what might prove useful. Also some of these documents are extremely short, so if using a researcher rather than being able to go yourself it can be quite costly for a few pages of sometimes very general comments. Gary
Gary, Thanks for this. I was in the UK in July but I was unable/forgot to get grab armoured division docs (fortunately I remembered to get the infantry with the exception of the battalion). Worst case scenario I'll pay a researcher to make copies at Kew using my research funds but I'm hoping to find them online or someone who has copies. What I'm trying to do is trace the development of infantry and armoured brigade doctrine leading up to 6 June 1944 so I can develop an understanding of what brigade commanders understood their roles to be within the context of the division/corps. To do that I think I need to look at published doctrine 1939-1944 (FSRs/MTPs/ATIs), look at what Montgomery produced as GOC SE Army and 8th Army, look at what other commanders provided as direction (e.g. Guy Simonds) and then look at how those formations in Home Forces applied doctrine practically in exercises and the direction division/corps commanders provided to brigadiers. With this developed I believe I can say "this is what infantry and armoured brigade commanders understand their roles to be on 6 June 1944" and "this is the role they actually played in Northwest Europe." One thing that really stands out is that they didn't publish doctrine specific to infantry and armoured brigades. Right now what I believe is that there was a not inconsiderable amount of confusion at the bde level, doctrine and direction was contradictory, the role of the brigade commander was heavily influenced by personality, and bde comds did a lot of practical learning in NW Europe. Cheers, Nick
Depending on whereabouts you are, the AWM also has copies of MTP.41 (of 1940) and Part 2 of 1943. They also have the Home Forces Doctrine of 1942 for the Armoured Division and the Mixed Division. I've ordered online direct from the AWM and, while it takes a while, the service has been very good (just a few missing pages). The CWM also has most of the British issue items in its stocks. Gary
Thanks Gary, I'm in Canada and have relatively easy access to the CWM so that may be my best option. Thanks.
I'll look it out, am happy to help, not sure how quickly I can get it scanned but I'll try get it soon
I did see that thanks. I managed to pull a couple of interesting documents but most of what I'm looking for was not digitized there.
