SS Kildale casualties

Discussion in 'Non-Commemorated War Dead' started by temptage, Mar 2, 2022.

  1. temptage

    temptage I thought it would only take a few weeks......

    Ive found very intriguing entry in the burial records for Cleethorpes Cemetery

    In amongst the listings of the crew of the SS Kildale who are buried in Cleethorpes Cemetery there is an entry for a female called Elsie Hooper.

    1940 Elsie Hooper.jpg

    Looking in the casualty list on the CWGC database, it lists 6 men from the Kildale, 5 of which died on the 3rd Feb 1940, and one who died on the 5th, no doubt because of injuries. But then on the 11th it shows Elsie as having died. Could she have died at 12 Twining Place, Cleethorpes, due to injuries 8 days later? It clearly shows she was on board the SS Kildale.
    There was also a 7th casualty listed on the CWGC database who died even later of his injuries, on 6th July 1940.

    1940 Elsie Hooper2.jpg

    Is it possible that she was a member of the crew, but her name wasnt included in the CWGC because she later died at home? Could she have slipped through the net, for want of a phrase?

    The SS Kildale was bombed and strafed by 2 German planes and the 6 died when the Engineroom took a direct hit. The 7th died of injuries 5 months later. But the curious thing is that her husband, Wallace L Hooper, is listed on the 1939 England and Wales Register as Fisherman (Skipper) (Cert No. 9180) and also Skipper Lieut RNR 2349. Could Wallace have been the Skipper on the SS Kildale, and had taken his wife along?

    Any input is more than welcome
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
  2. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Death certificate may tell:

    Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
    First name(s) Elsie
    Last name Hooper
    Gender Female
    Birth day -
    Birth month -
    Birth year 1891
    Age 49
    Death quarter 1
    Death year 1940
    District Cleethorpes
    County Lincolnshire
    Volume 7A
    Page 2088

    For a reason I don't know this suggests a possible error:
    Elsie Hooper (1891-1940) - Find a Grave Memorial
     
    CL1 likes this.
  3. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    I believe this may be her in 1939 Cleethorpes, note husband:
    Hooper.jpg
     
    CL1 likes this.
  4. temptage

    temptage I thought it would only take a few weeks......

    Yes but the person who inputted the data on Find A Grave was only going from the burial records. They have no idea, as much as the rest of us.

    Thats the entry I saw and quoted in my OP
     
  5. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Here are my thoughts.
    Her husband is noted as a Skipper RNR in 1939 - he would have been skipper of a fishing trawler. When war came those skippers were commissioned into the RNR and the trawlers converted to minesweepers etc. Skippers were formal terms for the captains of fishing boats but used informally for the masters of a merchant vessels. You would never see the master of a merchant ship refrerred to as a skipper on any formal document

    To answer your question you would need to obtain the 1940 Crew Agreement for KILDALE official number 137085 which is held at Kew in piece BT 381/652.
    KILDALE was mined and damaged off the Naze on 15 January 1940. Bombed and damaged off the East Coast on 3 February 1940 and bombed by enemy aircraft and sunk of the east coast of Scotland on 3 November 1940.
    The master when the ship was sunk in November 1940 was Captain John Joseph Robinson who was awarded the OBE(Civ). That does not mean that he was the captain during the earlier bombing in February so again the CA should be checked.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
    timuk, CL1 and 4jonboy like this.
  6. Richelieu

    Richelieu Well-Known Member

    Even before seeing the Find A Grave page my instinct had me questioning whether the burial register was correct - a sight of the full pages, complete with headings and relative interment dates might help. I think that you should try to establish the cause of Elise’s death from her death certificate as Tony suggested or perhaps from the local newspapers. Was this consistent with enemy action?

    Although subject to revision, the initial report given to the War Cabinet is consistent with the 5 KIA & 1 DOW suggested by CWGC:
    upload_2022-3-3_12-10-23.png
    Record Type: Memorandum Former Reference: WP (40) 46 Title: Weekly Resume... | The National Archives

    Do you have any evidence to support that the July death was a casualty of the February incident?

    Report of her loss to the War Cabinet:
    upload_2022-3-3_12-14-4.png
    Record Type: Memorandum Former Reference: WP (40) 435 Title: Weekly Resume... | The National Archives
     
    timuk, temptage and 4jonboy like this.
  7. temptage

    temptage I thought it would only take a few weeks......

    Nothing written in stone, but as Hugh pointed out, the only 3 occasions where the Kildale was involved in anything were:

    KILDALE was mined and damaged off the Naze on 15 January 1940. Bombed and damaged off the East Coast on 3 February 1940 and bombed by enemy aircraft and sunk of the east coast of Scotland on 3 November 1940.

    So nothing of any date between Feb and November, but as he died in Grimsby General Hospital it is possible that he could have been injured in Feb and died in July, but then again he could also have fallen ill onboard while the Kildale was plying its trade and he was landed, to be sent to hospital where he died.
     
  8. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    The seaman referred to here was Fireman & Trimmer Manuel Mazarokis a Greek national who died at Corporation Hospital, Scartho, Grimsby on 6 July 1940. At the time of the bombing [Feb] he was listed as a survivor of the action.
    The cause of death was 'pulmonary tuberculosis, aggravated by immersion caused by enemy action', almost certainly caused by the February bombing.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
    4jonboy, CL1 and Richelieu like this.
  9. Richelieu

    Richelieu Well-Known Member

    The only reason that I posed the question was that in your OP you presented as fact that which appeared to be supposition, which you now acknowledge – important to be clear.
     
  10. temptage

    temptage I thought it would only take a few weeks......

  11. temptage

    temptage I thought it would only take a few weeks......

    IMG_20220303_142826.jpg IMG_20220303_142837.jpg
     
    CL1 likes this.
  12. temptage

    temptage I thought it would only take a few weeks......

  13. temptage

    temptage I thought it would only take a few weeks......

    I could not find any mention of Elsie Hooper in either of the local Newspapers of the day, not even in the death notices. So I think we can categorically say that Elsie Hooper was not on the Kildale even though the burial register says she was.

    And we can also say that Manuel Mazarokis WAS the seventh victim of the attack on the Kildale.
     
    Roy Martin and Hugh MacLean like this.
  14. temptage

    temptage I thought it would only take a few weeks......

    Interesting. Very interesting.

    I have just found a piece about an RAF Officer, John Dowland, who was awarded the George Cross

    "for his gallantry in defusing a bomb that had fallen on the grain ship SS Kildare in Immingham docks on 11 February 1940."

    Is that just coincidence that it happened on the same day that Elsie Hooper died. Could she have been on board while it was in dock?

    Ive just aplied for her death certificate. Could be a waste of £7 but at least I will know either way the cause of her demise.

    Curiouser and curiouser.
     
    Hugh MacLean and Roy Martin like this.
  15. Richelieu

    Richelieu Well-Known Member

  16. temptage

    temptage I thought it would only take a few weeks......

    Drumroll please..................................

    .............................her cause of death was................

    Carcinoma of the stomach.

    So nothing to do with the SS Kildale after all.

    Ho hum. You win some, you lose some.
     
    Hugh MacLean likes this.

Share This Page