Battlegroup Fehrmann Tiger v. three British Comets, 3RTR

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by SDP, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Must have given Langdon and his Troop quite another surprise as he drove by F01.
    Looking at the photos of F01, the gun tube is stuck in the recoil position so 1 Troop must have already passed F01 by the time all the photos were taken.
     
  2. S54

    S54 Junior Member

    Yeah not ‘arf!:wacko:
     
  3. S54

    S54 Junior Member

    Which would imply the recoil system was damaged by being hit and the subsequent fire! If it was a Chieftain l’d put it down to lack of air in the recuperator!:salut:
     
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  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  5. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

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  6. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Fascinating photos Olli. Many thanks for posting them. The Tiger is definitely F01 and we can now have fun trying to identify the Comet. My first guess is that it could be Cpl Brindle’s, although John Langdon says it was struck in the front and turret and as yet I can’t see a hit to the turret. Anyhow, all this for later as Mrs JDKR is telling me breakfast is ready!
     
  7. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Breakfast over and couldn’t resist another look at the photos. The Comet has been hit twice: one on the glacis plate, the other plumb middle of the front plate. So not Cpl Brindle’s. I’ll need to check the survey of tank casualties by the two RAMC captains.

    Re-reading the post accompanying the photos it mentions that the tank was not far from the Kroepke inn, making the BC’s Comet a strong candidate.
     
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  8. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Gosh! Some more photos of F01 including the first I've seen of the rear of the tank. At least one photo taken some time after the incident - look at the snow on the ground.
    The Comet appears to be C Squadron 3RTR - definitely a circle on the turret and what appears to be a 52 on the nose plate and a T number ending in 7 again on the turret.
     
  9. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Intriguing if it's a C Squadron Comet as I'm not aware of them losing a tank at Essel. Why would a C Squadron tank be that far up the Ostenholz road? Was '52' 3 RTR's AOS number?

    The 10.5cm Flak are interesting. They clearly come from a motorisiert unit as the wheels of the anhaenger are visible on the right of the photo. I'm not aware of any 10.5cm Flak in the Essel area. Perhaps the photo was taken elsewhere but nearby.
     
  10. S54

    S54 Junior Member

    Yes most definitely, just a pity we can’t make out the name!
     
  11. S54

    S54 Junior Member

    l think this Comet is the most likely candidate:-

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Makes a lot of sense but that date raises a few questions re location. The Essel incident occurred nearly two weeks later.
     
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  13. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    To give the truth the honour - I had actually been researching something completely different and stumbled across it rather by chance
    From the Comet there is the same picture of the frontal view with the caption "bei Schwarmstedt" from a local historian living in Helstorf, who also provided some pictures of the bridges there:
    brücke 0.jpg brücke 1.png brücke 2.png unnamed.jpg
    I am still waiting for an answer about the Comet tank and the location where it was photographed.
     
  14. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Just out of curiosity: What is that object at the top left of the picture?
    whassat.png
     
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  15. S54

    S54 Junior Member

    Roadsign!
     
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  16. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Comet name looks like Cleopatra - I've seen that tank name somewhere before!
     
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  17. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    The local historian received the two pictures of the Comet from the Schwarmstedt municipal archives - where the tank is registered as a Tiger....
    But the good man has agreed to look into the matter
    And I have to break off now - Fraulein Ltdan insists that we go for a bike ride in this wonderful weather ;-)
     
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  18. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Description is accurate but, as Steve says, the date is wildly out. Having looked at TTS to refresh my memory (!), I see that an FOO’s Comet as well as the BC’s was knocked out by a Tiger in the area described in the attachment to Itdan’s post #325. Could, for some strange reason, the KOd Comet have been allocated to one or other of them from C Sqn?
     
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  19. S54

    S54 Junior Member

    Highly feasible John! A Sqn’s FOO’s tank breaks down and C Sqn’s FOO is in the vicinity and is told to switch to A Sqn’s net and work with them!
     
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  20. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    I have given the Flak some thought and referred to an excellent source - my own book! Doh! I record that in the Nienburg area were two units equipped with 10.5cm Flak - RAD Batterie 1./521 and Batterie 2./137 - and that two guns of the RAD battery withdrew to the Aller’s right bank in the Essel area during the withdrawal from the Weser. The picture is therefore very likely of those guns.

    Both guns’ barrels are elevated to meet an air threat but perhaps that is due to the boys playing with the elevating gear! The front gun’s barrel has clearly been spiked.
     
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