Varsity picture? Any ideas?

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by alberk, Nov 6, 2020.

  1. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Hello, please take a look at this picture.
    US Para artillery.jpg
    These - in my opinion - must be soldiers of US 17th AB Div. The M1943 field jacket, the US flag on the right arm, the helmets with first aid packet all suggest this. The vegetation is still without leaves - typical for Varsity pictures. So this could be March 1945. What makes me suspicious is the landscape in the background - is it a bit too hilly for the Wesel area. The LZ and DZ and the the area around them is all flat - with some rare exceptions. Also the horizon line looks as if somebody messed with this picture - cut something off maybe?. From Wesel 17 Ab Div went on in the direction of Muenster - the landscape is very flat between Wesel and Muenster. After Muenster I believe they went on to help mop up and herd together German Army Group B in the Ruhr district - that was in April. In parts of the Ruhr district (around Essen and in the direction of Duesseldorf) the landscape is hilly.
     
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  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

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  3. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Thanks you, Owen. They write that the picture was taken at Wesel, shortly after landing. That would be nice!
    I am just still wondering about the background - clearly the trees are somewhat cut off, arent't they? So it is not necessarily a hill in the background...
     
  4. Bedee

    Bedee Well-Known Member

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  5. Bedee

    Bedee Well-Known Member

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  6. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Bedee. a photo by Eugene Bradley. Still the same odd background...
     
  7. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

  8. Bedee

    Bedee Well-Known Member

    Not to confuse you, but... i see a M116 Howitzer, and according several sources 680th was equipped with 105MM Howitzers.

    680th GFAB history
    http://www.tmroth.com/Airborne Battery A.pdf

    I also know the area, but i dont see any concern in the picture. Because i think from the dropzone you can see the Diersfordter wald.
    But i understand your view.
     
  9. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    I am confused now...
     
  10. Bedee

    Bedee Well-Known Member

    :):)

    466th Parachute Field Artillery Battalion was equipped with these Howitzers (M116 or 75mm Pack Howitzer M1)
    For this information see the Report of Operation Varsity.

    And here 466th After action Report

    So hope no confusion any more...
     
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  11. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Thank you - I just was not aware that there was a 105mm pack howitzer.
     
  12. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Alberk - Are you sure about 17th US Airborne; could also be US Airborne troops (82nd) in the Ardennes (during the early December battles in the Vielsalm/Stavelot/Cheneux area, when there was no snow yet)

    Tiger ardennes.jpg
    Picture of a Tiger II near La Gleize, Dec 1944
     
  13. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    The look of 17th AB troops at Wesel is quite distinctive - US flag on shoulder, first aid package on helmet, M1943 field jacket...
     
  14. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    17 AB Div helped out in the Ardennes too, but in January 1945.
     
  15. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    By the time they were engaged in the Ardennes the countryside was covered deep in snow.

    Ardennes 1945, 51st Highland Div
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
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  16. Bedee

    Bedee Well-Known Member

    Alberk,

    I did some search today and you know pictures with NO focus points are hard to identify, but...
    - think you are right with 17 AB, mainly because of the Bandage on the Helmet
    - 466 and 464 Parachute Field Artillery, used these guns
    - 681 Gliders Field Artillery used this Gun
    - 680 GFA used 105mm
    - Indeed 17th was active in the Batle of the Bulge and Varsity.
    - Picture, could be on both places Close to Wesel (464) close to Hamminkeln (466)

    Your call for now, but be carefull for 'Tunnelvisie".
     
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  17. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Hi Bedee, thanks to this forum - and your contributions too - my vision is constantly broadened... so not much danger of "Tunnelvisie"...:D
     
  18. Welbike

    Welbike Junior Member

    OK, a bit of background info on Pack artillery, the term "M116" is a postwar one, (some small improvements were made, especially to the recoil system) as it was designated that way after the war, it is still a major Salute gun in the US Army, and special blank ammunition is still made for it. So during wartime it's a Howitzer, Pack, M1A1, the A1 part, being the pneumatic tire version. and yes indeed, there was a 105mm. too, the M3 model, but not very many made (2580), and not much used. but the picture is interesting, and had not seen it before, maybe someone will come up with a better version. The brits also used the M1A1 in Operation Varsity, and I have a big part of one, that was recovered a couple of years ago, it was still inside a crashed glider, and dug up somehow, I don't know the location, as the seller lied about it's origins, but am pretty sure that it was near Haminkeln, Germany.

    Cheers,

    Lex
     

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