Trying to solve the mystery of my Grandads service - Dispatch rider

Discussion in 'General' started by Chris Bailey, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. Chris Bailey

    Chris Bailey Member

    Hi all

    I have been trying to find out about my Grandads WW2 service for a while now. Unfortunately he died before I was born so never got to discuss this with him. He was also very relecuant to discuss his time with my mum or her siblings. He did not claim his medal either.

    He is the man in my profile picture and I am super proud of him! What I know is:

    He was born 5 Jan 1923
    He was a dispatch rider
    He was shot in the arm or leg
    He fell off his bike and broke his arm or leg (these two stories sort of got mixed u and I can't remeber the exact order)
    His service number was 14400518
    He enlisted 29 July 1942
    Worked in a Welsh mine in 1939 (did he enlist in Wales?)

    I have applied for his records but have not had anything back and its been over 6 months now (this is likely due to everything that is going on at the moment).

    What I would mostly like to find out is what regement he would have served in and what a dispatch riders service would have been like?

    I have attached a copy of a picture my uncle has of my grandads record. At the bottom it has really confused me as it says he was not in the regular army, supplementary reserve, territorial or reserves section D.... it just has Duriation of emergency N S Act B200D or Blood handwritten on it?! This document is signed 7 Jan 1945.

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    https://photos.app.goo.gl/gd6G5VN1MZTyFZb48
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/qZpk6iX5jzTgqShi9
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Look him up using his number on the casualty lists on FindMyPast.
    That should give you a bit more info.
     
  3. Chris Bailey

    Chris Bailey Member

    Thank you. I have Find My Past and it is as if he does not exisit.... nothing at all comes up.
     
  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    As would be expected for a recruit joining in 1942, his service number indicates that he was enlisted in the General Service Corps where he'd have been assessed for subsequent postings. Unfortunately, the paybook doesn't state to which unit. Is there any record of trade courses or tests ? If you look under the paper referring to inspections, there appear to be details which probably relate to a subsequent posting and may be signed by an officer with unit details, or if the officer's name is legible, it may be possible to find him in the London Gazette together with unit he was commissioned in..Only a small clue and maybe misleading...

    Enlistment under the National Service Act was for 'Duration of Emergency'. The conscripts had no right to an army pension etc. as a regular soldier would have. The note after may well just be a draft reference.

    Only the Royal Corps of Signals had the trade of 'Despatch Rider' with associated trade pay but of course most units had motorcyclists to some degree and their duties may have included carrying messages.
     
  5. Chris Bailey

    Chris Bailey Member

    Thank you for this, brilliant information and gives me some leads to follow.

    Could it be possible he was linked with Royal Corps of Signals? Or is that unlikely?
     
  6. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    The second image has branch as "RiFLE" - which I'd have taken as Rifle Brigade or a Rifle Regiment but his rank is Private not Rifleman, it does give the impression he was infantry though - if he was Signals I'd expect RCOS in the arm section and rank as SIGMN. As Rich says Despatch Rider was a RCOS trade, but most soldiers on motorbikes seem to be be incorrectly referred to as DR's, I'm not sure if that is a modern misconception or if the men at the time also used the term wrongly - I was recently looking at a Service Book to a Royal Artillery man whose service trade was noted as Despatch Rider at the time so it looks like even officials can get it wrong. The wounding is odd as it should be listed in Findmypast as Owen says but he isn't there, again its not infallible as I have a letter to next of kin informing a man was wounded but he doesn't show up in the lists.

    Anyway I'm rambling a bit, can you get scans of more pages as they may give more clues.
     
    Chris Bailey likes this.
  7. Chris Bailey

    Chris Bailey Member

    Thank you for this. These are the only pages we have until his service records come through (if they survived). Family story says he delivered messages so do you know if this could have been the case without him being a dispatch rider?
     
  8. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    What are those perforated slips at the rear, Alistair ? I see a note underneath stating that part was "Not to be filled in by soldier" so he presumably filled above the line in himself...bearing in mind that it is opposite the insert with clothing sizes, I wonder if he was stating that his issued arms consisted of a rifle ?

    The term "A despatch rider was sent..." is often seen in war diaries of infantry battalions and others so it certainly seems that anyone carrying a message on a motorcycle was referred to as such at the time that they were doing it. I think that it was often used as a short-hand term. In terms of motorcycles per man, a Provost section seems to have had the most and in total probably RASC for convoy marshalling work...also dangerous, whether under fire or not but they weren't 'Despatch Riders' as a trade.

    Chris...do you not have the original document that these scans were taken from ? They are from his AB64 'Paybook' and 'AB' above has a large collection and is probably the best qualified to interpret any other pages, even if they don't seem to contain clues.
     
  9. Chris Bailey

    Chris Bailey Member

    Thank you Rich.

    I will ask my Uncle but I think this is all he has. My Grandad really did not want to talk about his time at war so I'd imagine he didn't keep alot of the documents he had. These pages were probably just found among my Nans belongings.

    I am hoping that I will get his documents through the post but it sent off for them a good 6 months ago.
     
  10. Chris Bailey

    Chris Bailey Member

    Is there access to B200d records anywhere as this is what I think is referenced at the bottom of the first image.
     
  11. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    I'm not 100% sure what the slips are, but they are very common from mid-war and seem to have been a quick and easy way to take the mans details if he was in hospital/killed - rather than fill in his details, you just detach one and put it on his file
     
  12. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Unfortunately, Chris only a tiny percentage of the documentation created has been archived. Certainly no individual drafts etc....if that's what it is.

    Most men did retain their paybooks after service - they were required to. Younger chaps like your grandfather who joined in 1942 would have remained on the reserve list well into the 1950s, worrying about whichever conflict the government was going to call them back for. Many WW2 'Duration of Emergency' servicemen who had more than done their bit were recalled to fight someone else's war in Korea. My dad who enlisted early 1943 was not taken off the Reserve Lists until June 1959 at the age of 35. By the late 1950s, the book was probably in the attic or down the back of the sideboard !

    The pages that you've shown look like recent photos and the cover is visible so I'm sure that there is more there !

    Thanks for the explanation, Alistair. I only have family AB64s to refer to and haven't seen those slips before. You should write a history of AB64 changes ! :)
     
  13. Chris Bailey

    Chris Bailey Member

    My Uncle has dropped around all the information he has on my Grandad and there is more scanned documents, I have attached all the pages we have. I am really glad that there is more!
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/f7Tbd5U3pBPbjjRe9
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  14. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    I can't see the image, just [​IMG]
     
  15. Chris Bailey

    Chris Bailey Member

    I have just added another link. Not sure what happened there
     
  16. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

  17. Chris Bailey

    Chris Bailey Member

  18. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Sorry Chris, would have helped if I had read your first post properly! Yes unfortunately a long wait at present, mind you, 9 or 12 months was not unusual a year or so ago, afraid I am still waiting for some I applied for last September.

    You should get them OK though, if you are referring to the infamous 'burnt documents' they were WW1 which were bombed during WW2.
     
  19. Chris Bailey

    Chris Bailey Member

    Ah ok, I did not know that. Good to know its not a lost cause yet then.
     
  20. Chris Bailey

    Chris Bailey Member

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