Hi guys, I’m working at Tyne Cot Cemetery and Memorial for a while and due to this have ended up researching a few of the men/headstones. I’ve came across this one, however I’m stumped. As far as I can see, there is no West India Regiment that served on the western front, and further to that there are no missing men from the WIR in Belgium, never mind in the salient. Can anyone think of a cap badge that resembles/could be mistaken for theirs? Or could it be possible that the British West Indies Regiment was still referred to as the WIR till late war hence it being on the concentration documents? Would appreciate any help! Hoody
Strange one,but there is one more but attached to another regiment same badge though Captain HEWETT, GEORGE EDWARD Died 12/03/1915 Aged 43 West India Regiment attd. 3rd Bn.Worcestershire Regiment Son of Lt.-Col. Henry Hewett (R.M.A. Ret.) and Laura Barbara Hewett (nee Russell). Kemmel Chateau Military Cemetery Your Sergeant has a number as well according to that document? Both of these may have been killed prior to 26 October 1915 when the British West Indies Regiment was established? Kyle
Thelwall, Major Hubert Wallace, 1st West India Regiment, attached to the 15th Sherwood Foresters. Killed in action in France on 23 April 1916. Le Touret Military Cemetery. Northchurch | The Dacorum Heritage Trust Ltd.
There were a number though who were as shown above 'attached' to other British units Ivan Lancelot Stockhausen 3 Oct 1917 The West India Regiment Almericus John Falkiner De Courcy Williams 25 Oct 1914 The West India Regiment Kendal Coghill Glendower Ottley 31 Oct 1916 The West India Regiment Frederick Harvey King 12 Oct 1916 The West India Regiment Hubert Wallace Thelwall 23 Apr 1916 The West India Regiment Reginald Robert Lawrenson 27 Apr 1918 The West India Regiment Albert Trever De Monteval Martin 10 Dec 1917 The West India Regiment John George Lawrence 15 Feb 1918 The West India Regiment George Stafford Hilliard Tyndale 13 Mar 1915 The West India Regiment Most of the above are shown as attached but also they are as far as I can see Officers, but it remains that your man being a Sergeant could also have been attached to another British unit - unfortunately we dont have the details as yet TD
Whilst I accept that he has the rank of private, not sergeant. there is a soldier on the Tyne Cot memorial with the same service number. HERBERT BARTON Casualty The Suffolk Regiment badge has some similarities with the headstone: British West Indies Regiment India W. Indian Cap Badge WW1 Suffolk Regiment Cap Badge
Using the above and searching for just the service number All UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919 Results George William Taylor - Catton, Norfolk 25 Oct 1916 Bedfordshire Regiment 4334 2 Reginald Edward Matthews - Hatfield Broad Oak, Essex 1 Nov 1918 Princess Victoria's (Royal Irish Fusiliers) 4334 2 George Moir Watt - Jamestown, Dumbarton 3 May 1917 Cameronian (Scottish Rifles) 4334 2 Stephen Whittington - Angmering, Sussex 22 Jul 1917 Essex Regiment 4334 2 Herbert Barton - Weeley, Essex 27 Sep 1917 Suffolk Regiment 4334 2 Frank Percival Paradise - Devizes, Wilts 19 Apr 1918 Hampshire Regiment 4334 2 TD
I also noticed the similarity between the badges, which is why I wonder if the concentration record is wrong/using WIR abbreviation for the BWIR. I’ve been trying to research the war diaries for the Suffolk’s, however the division that Barton was with doesn’t have them available online (as far as I can see, would be grateful if someone could show me otherwise!). His date of death however ties in with the attack on Polygon Wood, which is very close to the location at which this body was found. Apologies for the poor screenshot, I’m on my phone using a work computer. Polygon Wood and Hill 40 are to the right of this location, and the Germans made numerous counter attacks in this area so there’s potential it’s him. However I can’t find his service record, as this may tell me if he was an acting Sgt. Thanks for all the help so far guys! EDIT - The body was found in the vicinity of my mouse cursor.
Thanks for that, although I could see the officers and knew they could be attached to other units, I wasn’t aware that sergeants could be too. Thanks for pointing it out! Hoody
Just out of interest, the concentration report states that id was 'groundsheet' - I assume that it had some faded or partial writing on it with number and rank and a faded or partial regimental badge that led to the WIR in the first place - do you know if that is correct?
Thanks for that, any idea why some of their diaries are available on Ancestry while others are on the NA? In regards to the ID, I’m only an intern at Tyne Cot however I’ve messaged one of the historians at head office to see if it’s possible to see the information that was taken from the groundsheet. Hoody
Sorry no idea. Might be worth looking at this: Over The Top It mentions the 2 Suffolk Regt overlooking Zonnebeke Lake which is just north of Polygon Wood and also mentions Hill 40. Edit 2 Suffolks at Zonnebeke on 26 September - Herbert Barton died 27th?
UK, WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920 Name: Herbert Barton Military Year: 1914-1920 Rank: Private Company: WO 329 Regiment or Corps: Suffolk Regiment Regiment Number: 43342 Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal Seems as though he ended up in the Suffolks but dint start there British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920 Name: Herbert Barton Regiment or Corps: Northamptonshire Regiment, uff R Regimental Number: 24791,43342 Casualty He is listed on the memorial only TD UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919 Name: Herbert Barton Birth Place: Weeley, Essex Death Date: 27 Sep 1917 Death Place: France and Flanders Enlistment Place: Colchester Rank: Private Regiment: Suffolk Regiment Battalion: 2nd Battalion Regimental Number: 43342 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: Western European Theatre Comments: Formerly 24791, Northants Regt. Global, Find A Grave Index for Burials at Sea and other Select Burial Locations, 1300s-Current Name: Pvt Herbert Barton Death Date: 27 Sep 1917 Cemetery: Tyne Cot Memorial Burial or Cremation Place: Zonnebeke, Arrondissement Ieper, West Flanders (West-Vlaanderen), Belgium Has Bio?: Y Pvt Herbert Barton (Unknown-1917) - Find A Grave...
Herbert Charles Barton 1883–1917 BIRTH ABT. 1883 • Weeley, Essex, England DEATH 27 SEP 1917 • WW1 - Belgium TD
Do hope I have not set you off on a wild goose chase, his 'register of effects' states that death was "on or since 27.9.17 - Death presumed"
In regards to the ID, unfortunately the only records left are the burial sheets which is no use in this situation as ‘groundsheet’ doesn’t narrow anything down. I’m going to have a look at the maps once I finish work and see if the diaries mention where the Suffolk’s would’ve been in regards to the Battle of Polygon Wood as this would tie in with his date of death. Cheers again for all your help guys, Hoody
West India Regiment: Existing regiment in 1914. Served East & West Africa, and Palestine in WW1. West India Regiments - Wikipedia British West Indies Regiment: Raised in 1915. 3rd, 4th & 6th-11th Battalions served in France. British West Indies Regiment – The Long, Long Trail
Hoody The book "Over The Top: Great battles of the First World War" provides a brief account of the battle of Polygon Wood:- A map below giving my thoughts on the locations where the 2 Suffolks were on 26 September, this was the day before Herbert Barton went missing and was presumed killed. I stress just my thoughts. Map.jpg