Battlegroup Fehrmann Tiger v. three British Comets, 3RTR

Yes, I know what you mean, I've been going through google, etc, to no avail. I've scanned the badge with max resolution (9.600 dpi!) and you can see it's basically crown-shaped, but not much more. I've included an inverted colour image, which does show some contrast...anybody out there recognise it?

 

The only badge that slightly resembles the shape is that of the Royal Gloucestershire Hussars, although they were disbanded 1943...

 

I've had a conversation off Forum - he knows who he is as do a couple of others - and he also suggested Gloucestershire Hussars. The chap could be wearing an old badge - unusual but not by any means unique.

 

From some quick research, only 2nd Royal Gloucestershire Hussars were disbanded in 1943. The 1st were in existence throughout the war. This what the Gloucestershire.gov site says about the regiment...
At the outbreak of the 2nd World War, 1st RGH was mobilized as an armoured unit. It functioned as a training and rehabilitation unit, remaining in England for the duration of the War, to be disbanded in 1946 after doing garrison duty in Austria.
I think it is likely that the lad wearing the RGH cap badge - assuming that is what the cap badge is - was therefore an individual reinforcement dispatched to 3 RTR in the closing days of the war. Or maybe I'm completely wrong!

 

Hi Frank,

Can you make out the names on the two Comets T334972 and T35139.

Cheers

Kevin

 

Hello Frank, and SDP too.

Staffordshire Yeomanry maybe?

The cap badge has the look of the Staffordshire Knot about it (to my poor eyesight anyway!)

Good luck with your searches chaps.

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

Hi, thanks to everyone for their help, as for the tank names... I've scanned the photo at max resolution, unfortunately I can't make them out.. the original photos aren't very clear, I'm afraid. Maybe if someone knows names of B squadron 3 RTR tanks we might be able to 'guestimate'..!!
I'll be starting a thread shortly about the squadron, trying to identify names, tanks, etc, hopefully, once I've finished scanning. Many thanks to all!

 

Hi Frank,

Thanks for checking. I see what you mean they are still hard to make out the only thing I think as regards to T334972 is that the last two letters are ET.
Any way here is a list of all the 3 RTR tank names I have by squadron by tank type. The names date range from the desert through to the end of the war in Germany.

Unconfirmed Squadron

Stuart (all desert I think) BUTCHER, T28178 CINCINATTI, T37835 COLORADO, T28026 CROSSBOW
Grant (desert) CHICHESTER IV, CUMBERLAND IV
Sherman V (France) GOOD SAMARITAN
Comet (Germany) T335220 CAESAR, CAIRNGORN, CAPRICORN, T335042 COBRA, CORINTH, CRUSADER

A Squadron
Stuart (desert) T37764 COLUMBIA IV ( 3 trp )
Sherman (France) SHUFTI’S HOPE
Comet (Germany) CHAMPION II, T335335 CELERITY ( 3 trp )

B Squadron
A10 Cruiser (all Greece I think) T5953 BLUE EYES, BLUEBELL, BONNIE II, T9259(?) BULL PUP, CONNIE II
Matilda (UK?) BLUEBELL
Comet CHERUB, COQUETTE ( 6 trp )

C Squadron
Stuart (desert) CONNECTICUT, T37383 COLOMBO ( HQ ), T28148 CEYLON ( 11 trp )
Sherman Vc (Germany) CHARLESTOWN I
A10 Cruiser (all Greece?) CHRISTINE ( ? trp ), CALM, COOL, COLLECTED ( all 9 trp ), CECILIA, CYMBELINE, CYNTHIA (all 10 trp), CATHERINE, CLARA, COLUMBINE (all 11 trp), CALCUTTA, CALICUT, CAWNPORE (all 12 trp), CAIRN, CALLIPOE, CALLISTE, CAMILLA, CLYTEMNESTRA (all HQ)

All of those in bold I have seen photos of. These may not be of use to this puzzle but the names may be of interest to some. If any one can add any names or census numbers to the above or see any errors please let me know.

Cheers

Kevin

 

Hi all, just to let you know, I've started posting pics, etc in a new thread, 3 RTR B Squadron, please feel free to participate!

 

1st RGH joined 35th Army Tank Brigade (35 Armoured Brigade from 14 July 1945) on 16 June 1945 and was scheduled to go to India equipped with Churchill tanks later that year, with a view to being one of 2 Churchill equipped brigades used against the Japanese. That plan was cancelled after VJ-Day and the Brigade disbanded at the end of August. That the freed 1st RGH to re-equip with Shermans and armoured cars and be sent to Austria on garrison duty.

 

Getting back to the Tiger, found this whilst trawling through the tank museum's twitter account, I don't recall having seen it here, may be mistaken..

 

I don’t think I have seen that photo either. There is one similar but this one has sharper focus. Good view of Sgt Harding’s shot’s penetration.

 

Sorry it's taken a while, couldn't remember where this post was! Two more names for the list, I had already posted them, but they're worth a re-post! I'm guessing Alex was in my grandfather's squadron, B, so you have Evelyn for the Sherman, although as it was only used for the Ardennes, maybe that was the name give by previous owner...and Cestus, unfortunately, no T number. Regarding Cherub, you can't see the name, but the T number is T334947.

 

Great photos Frank and I particularly like the one on the autobahn exit. The Comet looked - and was - a good tank. However, a shame the Centurion was too late to see action in Germany.

 

,

I'm wondering if the letters above the Infantry Phone Box on the photo of T334947 read Cherub?

 

The first letter or symbol definitely looks like a 'C', but on the other hand it looks like there are only four of them. (Then again I am only a novice at photo analysis)

 

Hello JDKR, and SDP, Chris, Frank, and all good folks who have contributed here.

In the wee small hours of this morning I finally located my copy of Ulrich Saft's "KRIEG IN DER HEIMAT" and (I hope without incurring the wrath of Oberstleutnant Saft) thought I'd post a few pictures up in relation to F02 (good to see Herr Saft sourced some of his from Bovington)

Have been through the whole of the thread this morning and hope it's not too much of a repetition for JDKR and SDP who are without doubt much, much, much more knowledgably informed than myself!

First three are from "KRIEG IN DER HEIMAT", last two personnel of 1 RTR immediately post war, those in between I have no memory of where I sourced them from years ago (internet maybe?) I think a couple of these showing F02 having been moved/recovered may have American servicemen in them.

Apologies for the lack of quality of the images.

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

Jim

Thanks for the input. Appreciated.

I, and others - they know who they are - have been delving into Saft's work for quite a number of years and, sad to report, he makes many errors (far too many to Number/quote here) including repeating the errors of other authors etc. The main mistake is his confusion between Tigers F01 and F02: the Tiger KO on the Esseler Damm, i.e. the one which is the subject of this thread and involved in this incident versus the three Comets on 12th April 1945 and KO by Sgt Harding on Friday 13th April 1945, is F01. The number F01 can clearly be seen on the turret as can the side AP penetration made by Sgt Harding. The photos including Tiger F02 are clearly of a different tank and taken elsewhere - notice the absence of trees in the background in the photos of F02.

Other photos in this thread also confirm that it is Tiger F01 that is located on the Esseler Damm - note the common denominator of the trees in the background.

I hope that clarifies matters

Thanks again
Steve

 

One of these Tigers appeared in a magazine article in 1997 misidentified as a Cintheux victim

 

Saft’s map in Jim’s post is reasonably accurate although well adrift with regard to the anti-tank unit numbered ‘71’.

In ‘K in der H’ Saft states that this unit was Panzerjaeger-Abteilung 71 and that at Essel it fielded '2 x Sturmgeschutze ‘Ferdinand’' and 2 x 8,8cm anti-tank guns. I can find no evidence that this unit ever existed; the heavy anti-tank unit that took part in the fighting in the Essel forest was Schwere Heeres-Panzerjaeger-Abteilung 661. As to the 'Ferdinands': no SdKfz 184 were operating on the West Front in April 1945; SdKfz 184 was a jagdpanzer not a sturmgeschutze; and by April 1945 the nickname for SdKfz 184 was 'Elefant' not 'Ferdinand'. I believe there were 2 x Panzer IV/70 operating in the Essel forest, but these belonged to a combined panzer-panzerjaeger unit commanded by a Maj Hache, not 661. 661 fielded 2 x 8,8cm Pak 43.

Also shown on the map is an infantry company numbered 7 from a battalion numbered 12. The battalion was SS-Panzer-Grenadier Ausbildungs und Ersatz Bataillon 12 'Hitlerjugend'. However, I do not believe its 7th company took part in the Essel battle as it was withdrawing on 12 April ('retreating' probably the more accurate term) across the Lichtenmoor towards Rethem.

As an aside, I'm well gutted as I think my book Theirs the Strife has fallen victim (hopefully temporarily) to Corvid 19 despite being completed, typeset and ready to be printed. Compared to much of what is going on at the moment this is pretty unimportant.

Interesting photo of the Tiger from m kenny. And still they come! This is the first time I have seen this photo. Pity the callsign is obscured as there is therefore no certainty that it was one of the Tigers in Gruppe Grosan. It's certainly not F01 as there is no damage to the side track guards and no sign of Sgt Harding's shot. Only F01 was knocked out in the Essel forest battle so this Tiger is in another location.

Keep taking the pills

John