Warrant Officer Class III, Platoon Sergeant Major: general discussion about the rank

Anyone come across this rank before?

I assume the PSM is Platoon Sergeant Major if so was it a exclusive rank to Infantry Battalions?

Any pictures of the rank badge?

Cheers
Andy

 

Just found the following on Wiki:

Platoon Sergeant Major (PSM) was an appointment in the British Army in the short-lived rank of Warrant Officer Class III (WOIII), created in 1938. The Platoon Sergeant Major, and his cavalry counterpart, the Troop Sergeant Major, were part of an experiment in giving experienced NCOs command of units formerly reserved for commissioned officers (platoons and troops). The experiment was not considered a success, and no promotions were made to the rank after 1940: most existing WOIIIs were commissioned as lieutenants.

 

Yep: Army Council Instruction 398, 17 Sep 1938 instituted this rank that lasted until c1947. That bit's from Davis British Army Uniforms and Insignia of World War Two.

The intention was to train senior NCOs in officers' duties to command at the platoon/troop level, as distinct from the type of role undertaken by CSMs and RSMs. Some pls/tps in a coy/sqn would be commanded by subalterns, some by WO3s.

For the duration, WO3s wore a plain crown, WO2s crown-in-wreath, WO1s Royal Arms.

 

I don't suppose you have a picture of the insignia?

 

Found these on Wiki:

Troop Sergeant Major - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Platoon Sergeant Major - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No Badges though.

 

Cheers Owen...The British Army still use a badge similiar if not the same today. In the Signals Yoeman, Foreman and RQMS wear them but the rank is W02.

Andy

 

Perhaps the Diggers did it differently, but the British WOIII wore the plain crown. Difficult to prove as they were probably a rare beast but her are some famous WOIIs to illustrate their crown in wreath:





Also found this: Ordnance Insignia of the British Army - Non-Commissioned Ranks & Appointments

 

A post by Owen took me to Scribd which had a copy of:
Ranks and Badges 1943
See p17 for Army WOs

 

I wonder how many CSM's and SSM's today know they are wearing what was a Class III badge

 

Hi all,
Here is a picture of a Platoon Sergeant Major from 2nd Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers.
About 2 weeks before the Germans invaded Belgium, all the PSM's apart from WO3 Gilmour were replaced with young subalterns!

 

There were WOIII Troop Sgt Maj's in the RA. As the Troop Commander, a Capt., was usually up at the OP, the gun troop was commanded by a subaltern with the help of the TSM. They also acted as Troop guide leading the guns into new positions.

TSM's were still around in my service (1962-81) and I presume still are today but now they are WOII's usually junior in seniority to the Bty Sgt Maj also a WOII.

 

Derek

Yes, we still have TSM,s but as you say they are junior to the BSM.

Phil

 

Warrant officer (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia

From 1938, there was also a rank of warrant officer class III (WOIII). The only appointments held by this rank were platoon sergeant major, troop sergeant major and section sergeant major. The WOIII wore a crown on his lower sleeve (which is why all WOIIs switched to a crown in a wreath during this period). The rank was placed in suspension in 1940 and no new appointments were made, but it was never officially abolished.

Hopefully adds something to this thread

TD

 

Was this a response to German army practice which tended to have a different officer/NCO ratio with NCOs doing work that the British army used junior officers for? The result in WW1 had been tactical level actions where the British had been led by inexperienced bran new officers (which is the real source of the'lions led by donkeys' comments by front line Germans)