9th British Infantry Brigade WW2 - War Diary and Detective Work

Discussion in 'Higher Formations' started by Quis Separabit, May 30, 2019.

  1. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    Evening all

    My dad transferred to 2RUR at the beginning of 1943 (hence 2RUR blog creation) and became "Camp Commandant" of 9th Infantry Brigade Headquarters at the end of 1943 where he remained until the end of the War before becoming a Town Major in Germany and being demobbed in March 1946.

    I have secured the War Diary for 9th British Infantry Brigade for Jan 1944 to Sep 1945 courtesy of Drew5233 and will be posting online as time allows at https://9th-british-infantry-brigade-in-ww2.blogspot.com together with any other bits and pieces I stumble across them.

    During this time the 9th British Infantry Brigade comprised:
    • 2nd Battalion, Lincolnshire Regiment - hard copy held of History in North West Europe 6 June 1944 to 8 May 1945 in my possession and will be posted online at some point......
    • 1st Battalion, King's Own Scottish Borderers
    • 2nd Battalion, Royal Ulster Rifles - see http://royal-ulster-rifles-ww2.blogspot.com
    and so there is reference to these units and their movements together with other units associated with the group on D-Day including:
    • East Riding Yeomanry
    • 33 Field Regiment
    • No 3 Platoon, 253 Field Company
    • 101 Anti Tank Battery
    • 9 Field Ambulance
    • Detachment 106 Bridging Company RASC
    • Detachment 172 Infantry Brigade Company RASC
    so if anyone has anything they want to contribute to the blog for this period then please let me know.

    In the meantime, a bit of detective work for you:
    1. Attached photo of 9th Brigade Headquarters officers was taken some time after 1 April 1945 (when Brigadier Kempster took over from Acting Brigadier GD Renny of KOSB) and shows all officers wearing uniforms/badges relating to their respective units
    2. Return of Officers from 5 May 1945 shows names and units as below (names don't change that often)
    3. Appreciate it isn't a great photo, but can anyone potentially match up the uniform/badges/ages to the names and units listed so that I can name them on the website???

    In the meantime, anyone idea what the role of a "Camp Commandant" was?

    Cheers.

    Quis Separabit

    upload_2019-5-30_18-31-20.png

    upload_2019-5-30_18-44-48.png
     
  2. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    At a divisional level, one reference I have says that the 'Camp Commandant' is responsible for the local administration of the HQ.

    That, of course, could mean a great many things.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2024
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  3. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    Camp Commandant was a post on the HQ of an Infantry Brigade (from early 1941 at least), which I understand related to the officer in charge of the Bde HQ area. He was also commander of the Bde's Defence (later Ground Defence) Platoon.

    Gary
     
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  4. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    From what I've read, it sounds as if he was responsible for the siting and layout of the HQ itself and would have a major role when the HQ was moved.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
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  5. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Far further up the tree, but here's the job description from Allied Forces HQ. I'd imagine the divisional and brigade-level posts carried out very similar duties on a much smaller scale:

    Standard Duties:

    (l) Local security of the headquarters.

    (2) Internal administration and arrangements
    for moving headquarters.

    (3) Detail of orderlies and messengers.

    (4) Supervision of headquarters mess.

    (5) Messing and quartering of casuals.

    (6) Reception of visitors at headquarters.

    To which AFHQ added:

    (1) Procurement and allocation of office space
    and shelter.

    (2) Supply of office equipment, furnishings,
    and stationery.

    (3) Supervision of firewatchers and fire-
    fighters, including supply and maintenance of fire-
    fighting equipment

    Source:
    Full text of "History Of Allied Force Headquarters Part 1: August - December 1942"
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
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  6. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member


    Thanks - that would explain the other photo in his collection.......

    "Brigadier W Kempster OBE and Lieut MP Scanlon - Defence Platoon HQ - 9th Brit Inf Brigade - Lengerich May45"

    again with a range of uniforms/badges...

    Quis Separabit

    upload_2019-5-30_19-40-13.png
     
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  7. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    Excellent - thanks very much....
     
  8. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    War diary now uploaded as far as April 1945 inclusive with 5 further months and additional content to follow...

    Quis Separabit
     
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  9. graeme

    graeme Senior Member

    Morning,

    An excellent resource and read, many thanks for all you efforts.

    I notice Page 3 December 1944 of 2RUR is missing. Is this missing from the WD ?

    Regards and thanks,

    Graeme
     
  10. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    A good spot.... I seem to have mislaid this somewhere along the way as at some point I got the file names/order muddled up but perhaps someone else might have a copy squirreled away...

    I've also noticed that I haven't posted copies of the Operational Orders I took at the same time so will look to post those shortly as well.

    Will get there eventually...

    Quis Separabit
     
    graeme likes this.
  11. EdSav

    EdSav Member

    Excellent Job and highly appreciated. Thanks
     
  12. Sandwych1

    Sandwych1 Member

    Hi everyone, I am intrested to find out if the 9th (British) Infantry Brigade had a shoulder Patch durring World War 2. Can anyone help? Cheers Andy
     
  13. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    Hi
    My Dad was with 2 Royal Ulster Rifles and attached to 9th Brigade Headquarters (alongside officers from other Regiemnts) as "Camp Commandant".

    Following some previous research on the matter I believe that the navy blue triangle patch on his uniform designated that he was with the 9th Brigade Headquarters.

    The same triangle can be seen on the uniform of some of the 9th Brigade Headquarters Defence Platoon members in May 1945.

    Otherwise other members of 9th Brigade would simply have the 3rd Division shoulder patch with their relevant Regiment patch above it.

    More details and images can be found at 9th British Infantry Brigade During World War 2

    Hope this helps.

    Quis Separabit
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 4, 2023
  14. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    At the risk of striking a commercial note the role of 33 Field Regiment and 101 Anto tank battery get a mention in
    Gunners in Normandy
    and D Day Gunners The cover art on this book is based on a photographs of a 33 Field Regiment gun taken on D Day opn the outskirts of Hermanville
     
  15. S. B

    S. B New Member

    Hello, this is my grandfather Joseph Brown on the end right side middle row. Thank you for posting!
     
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  16. S. B

    S. B New Member

    Hi, from what my aunt told me my grandfather was captured during the evacuation near Dunkirk. I know he was prisoner until the end of the war, do you have any info on captured soldiers here? Regards
     
  17. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    In which case he will have known my Dad (Lieutenant M.P. Scanlon of 2RUR) who was the Camp Commandant i.e. officer in charge of the Defence Platoon (sat on Kempster's right hand side).....

    If you can confirm his full name, rank and unit (1 KOSB?) and/or any other photos from the period then I will add happily his details to the site at 9th British Infantry Brigade During World War 2: Gallery which includes a few other photos and War Diary for 9th British Infantry Brigade HQ
     
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  18. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    You can find some online records at Forces War Records - Historical military records - Forces War Records but unsurprisingly there are quite a few Joseph Browns so you will need more details to narrow down.
    Once you know unit there are people who know ALOT about Dunkirk on here...

    Best option is always to obtain his Military Records - Select the service - Apply for a deceased person's military record - GOV.UK

    Good luck!

    Full Name Brown, Joseph
    Date of Birth 29 Jul 1920
    Birth Place St. Helens
    Date of Capture 20 May 1940
    POW Camp Stalag XXA Thorn
    Rank Name Private
    Servicenumber 97492
    Pow Number 8452
    Theatre of Capture Doullens, France
    Service British Army
    Primary Unit Royal Army Service Corps
    Archive Reference WO 416/49/350
     
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  19. S. B

    S. B New Member

    His service number is 7012984, born 2/5/12 St Catherine's Dublin. If you finding anything please post, I will look in to service records. Regards
     
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  20. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    Are you quite sure it is him on the the "end right side middle row"? It looks like a KOSB Cap Badge and shoulder patch?

    upload_2024-2-14_20-29-12.png

    His service number correlates to Royal Ulster Rifles and there are a number of records online for this Service Number confirming as being with 2 RUR pre Dunkirk, reported missing on 30th November 1944 and being reported as wounded (no longer missing) in May 1945 - you might want to take a look at 2nd Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles in WW2 which shows 2 RUR progress from DDay and the relevant action on 30th November.

    Full Name Brown, J
    Incident Date 1 Sep 1939
    Rank Name Rifleman
    Servicenumber 7012984
    Duty Location Parkhurst (Southern Command)
    Date of Court Martial 1 Aug 1939
    Plea The accused entered a plea of guilty to loss of property.
    Sentence 28 days detention with stoppage of pay
    Primary Unit Royal Ulster Rifles
    Secondary Unit 2nd Battalion
    Archive Reference WO86/97


    Full Name Brown, J
    Date 30 Nov 1944
    Fate Missing believed Prisoner of War
    Incident Details Reported to the War Office Casualty Branch for the 24 hours ended 09:00.
    Incident Date 18 Dec 1944
    Casualty List No. 1632.
    Rank Name Unpaid Lance Corporal
    Servicenumber 7012984
    Duty Location Western Europe
    Service British Army
    Regiment Royal Ulster Rifles
    Battalion 2nd Battalion
    Archive Reference WO417/86.1


    Full Name Brown, J
    Fate Wounded
    Incident Details Reported to the War Office Casualty Branch for the 24 hours ending at 09:00.
    Incident Date May 1945 (Date Not Recorded)
    Information Casualty List No. 1751. Previously reported Missing on Casualty List No. 1632, 30/11/1944, since located.
    Rank Name (Unpaid) Lance Corporal
    Servicenumber 7012984
    Duty Location Western Europe
    Service British Army
    Regiment Royal Ulster Rifles
    Battalion 2nd Battalion
    Archive Reference WO417/91.2
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2024
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