Gunner R. JONES - Ewloe

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by Mavis Williams, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Hi Everyone, I have found in the Chester Chronicle dated 19th February 1944 that Gunner R. JONES,R.A., who's wife Mrs. R. JONES of Chapel Row had received news that her husband,has died on active service. Gnr.. JONES was taken prisoner in North Africa and his death presumably occurred while aboard a troopship which was sunk after leaving North Africa. There is an R. JONES, (Robert) who died in 1942, a Gunner with the 97 (The Kent Yeomanry) Field Regt. Royal Artillery, on the Hawrden WW2 War Memorial, so it's not him, and I cannot find him on the CWGC or any local War Memorial, he would come under Hawarden really, I would think. So my question is - can anyone help in identifying the troopship that he was on, which I know is a big ask, or can anyone point me in any direction that would help tell his story and make sure that he is added to a memorial so he is not forgotten? Any help would be gratefully received. Kind regards, Mavis
     
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    What makes you assume this??

    Also the article was dated Feb 1944, but are you saying he died in 1942??

    TD
     
  3. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Mavis
    The date of death is not confirmed in the article
    check the below out

    001 JONES RJ 1037681 85 MOUNTAIN REGT 02/02/1945 ROYAL ARTILLERY V. G. 11.
    002 JONES R 3855630 3 MEDIUM REGT 21/05/1940 ROYAL ARTILLERY VI. A. 12.
    003 JONES RG 1459038 4 AIRLANDING ANTI TANK BTY 24/03/1945 ROYAL ARTILLERY 39. A. 2.
    004 JONES RT 1081203 194 FIELD REGT 18/05/1943 ROYAL ARTILLERY SEC. 17. C. OF E. CLASS D. GRAVE 23658.
    005 JONES WR 815689 - 27/08/1944 ROYAL ARTILLERY 11. H. 17.
    006 JONES RT 1832882 145 LT AA REGT 13/06/1945 ROYAL ARTILLERY SEC. 3. EXTN. CONS. GRAVE 165.
    007 JONES RC 818134 88 BTY, 14 ANTI TANK REGT 18/05/1940 ROYAL ARTILLERY 12. F. 12.
    008 JONES WR 4201851 55 THE WEST SOMERSET YEOMANRY FIELD REGT 25/04/1944 ROYAL ARTILLERY GRAVE 100.
    009 JONES RC 1536325 102 THE NORTHUMBERLAND HUSSARS LT AA/ANTI TANK REGT 20/05/1941 ROYAL ARTILLERY FACE 3.
    010 JONES RW 1469628 AND 07/04/1944 ROYAL ARTILLERY FACE 2.
    011 JONES RA 14245485 145 LT AA REGT 10/01/1945 ROYAL ARTILLERY GRAVE 3984.
    012 JONES R 1101797 78 THE DUKE OF LANCASTER'S OWN YEOMANRY MEDIUM REGT 15/08/1944 ROYAL ARTILLERY III, G, 1.
    013 JONES R 1801624 242 BTY, 48 LT AA REGT 04/01/1943 ROYAL ARTILLERY F. C. 12.
    014 JONES RE 11277112 71 HAA REGT 25/08/1943 ROYAL ARTILLERY 13. D. 13.
    015 JONES RJ 1564978 1 MARITIME REGT 25/07/1943 ROYAL ARTILLERY III. D. 11.
    016 JONES AR 4921436 70 HAA REGT 02/02/1945 ROYAL ARTILLERY 18. G. 12.
    017 JONES JR 46998 - 09/11/1943 ROYAL ARTILLERY RIGHT HAND COLUMN.
    018 JONES R 900219 188 BTY, 67 HA A REGT 20/03/1942 ROYAL ARTILLERY ROW F. GRAVE 3.
    019 JONES R 2689915 505 COAST REGT 27/12/1947 ROYAL ARTILLERY PANEL 3. COLUMN 2.
    020 JONES RL 1109085 4 MEDIUM REGT 18/04/1945 ROYAL ARTILLERY III. G. 17.
    021 JONES R 11002016 566 COAST REGT 30/06/1943 ROYAL ARTILLERY S.W. OF CHURCH.
    022 JONES RJB 1070635 138 FIELD REGT 28/03/1944 ROYAL ARTILLERY II. D. 11.
    023 JONES RD 920410 98 THE SURREY AND SUSSEX YEOMANRY FIELD REGT 28/05/1940 ROYAL ARTILLERY PLOT 5. ROW E. GRAVE 3.
    024 JONES HR 1563897 66 BTY, 80 LT AA REGT 27/04/1943 ROYAL ARTILLERY 2. C. 5.
    025 JONES RH 897965 69 THE DENBIGHSHIRE YEOMANRY MEDIUM REGT 08/09/1940 ROYAL ARTILLERY SEC. 7. GRAVE 8.
    026 JONES GER 794129 - 17/02/1945 ROYAL ARTILLERY GRAVE 225.
    027 JONES RM 1594765 99 HAA REGT 02/11/1943 ROYAL ARTILLERY SQUARE 98. GRAVE 48435.
    028 JONES RNK 128639 484 BTY, 139 M HAA REGT 09/04/1942 ROYAL ARTILLERY RIGHT OF MAIN PATH.
    029 JONES CR 4126670 59 6TH BN THE HAMPSHIRE REGT ANTI TANK REGT 02/10/1944 ROYAL ARTILLERY 10. C. 18.
    030 JONES RT 1605217 3 HAA REGT 15/02/1944 ROYAL ARTILLERY 2. A. 4.
    031 JONES RO 1073767 6 BTY, 2 HAA REGT 15/05/1944 ROYAL ARTILLERY 2A. B. 3.
    032 JONES GR 1817827 80 HAA REGT 07/01/1943 ROYAL ARTILLERY FACE 7.
    033 JONES DMR 67597 445 BTY, 65 FIELD REGT 16/10/1943 ROYAL ARTILLERY IV, F, 5.
    034 JONES RGC 247623 - 22/11/1945 ROYAL ARTILLERY CREMATION, PANEL 12.
    035 JONES SR 1143992 74 MEDIUM REGT 11/06/1943 ROYAL ARTILLERY 12. G. 10.
    036 JONES R 4462094 7/4 MARITIME REGT 07/02/1943 ROYAL ARTILLERY PANEL 84. COLUMN 3.
    037 JONES WJR 1833563 281 BTY, 86 LAA REGT 08/04/1942 ROYAL ARTILLERY PLOT H. CLASS A. GRAVE 49.
    038 JONES R 839898 11 BTY, 1 FIELD REGT 25/01/1942 ROYAL ARTILLERY COLUMN 36.
    039 JONES RH 1066506 28 FIELD REGT 05/06/1942 ROYAL ARTILLERY COLUMN 32.
    040 JONES R 968728 7 MEDIUM REGT 21/01/1942 ROYAL ARTILLERY COLUMN 33.
     
  4. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Thanks TD, No I was saying that the other (Robert) JONES, who I assumed wasn't the right R. JONES,had died in 1942, but the article in the paper was dated 1944. I am uploading the newspaper article, I hope that it comes through. Also the Casualty card of the Robert JONES who I have o the War Memorial, do you think they are one and the same person. A Casualty List is also uploaded.

    Is this Robert on the 1939 Register taken on the 29th September 1939
    Jones Household (4 People)
    5 Thomas Buildings, Ewloe, Hawarden R.D., Flintshire, Wales
    Robert Jones 13 Jul 1911 Male Butchers Assistant Married 107 1
    Olive Jones (Moseley ), (Ball) 08 Apr 1914 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 107 2
    Mary A Jones 16 Oct 1913 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 107 3
    Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
    The more I think about it the more I think he might be the same one.
    Thank you TD for making me look at it more clearly, although the time between him dying and the news coming out is a long time, but I think that was how it was then. News didn't come out immediately. Give me your opinion please. Regards, Mavis
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    SS Scillin - Wikipedia

    You need to see if the government kept a lid on the story - they wouldnt want Britain knowing that a British sub may have killed their own - this is all supposition - I would guess that the man in the article is the same as the RA attestation


    TD
     
  6. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Beat me to it TD, I was just about to post about SS Scillin. It's a shame Brian Sims/ADM199 is no longer with us. He discovered many years later that his father was on board and he did so much research (pre digitised records, in the face of much derision at the time) for the sake of his own family as well as others. He established that many of the men who died on the ship (and others) were noted incorrectly on official lists as POWs in Italy. The Alamein memorial is where one should expect them to be commemorated.

    This is the one I picked out as a candidate without checking details above.
    Casualty
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  7. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Interesting.

    I have four 1/4th Essex men on my lists who died when the Scillin went down.

    I have noted that 814 prisoners were onboard and only 27 (one South African the rest Brits) were rescued.
     
  8. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    See
    SS Scillin casuality list - 1/ 4th Battalion Essex Regiment

    Casualty list and POW list - one of Brian's explanations dotted about the forum:
    "Firstly my Father died on the Ship.
    Something I didn't know until 1992,and then only after my M.P. intervened on my behalf. The M.O.D.seemed to be reluctant to share the information with me.

    The C.W.G.C. Web site wasn't what it is now so I borrowed the Registers for the Memorial which contain almost 12,000 names and went through the lot to create a list of men with the right D.O.D. to have been on the ship. Added a few Naval Casualties to complete what turned out to be about 100% accurate. I brought the incident to the attention of C.W.G.C. in 1995,and after they had spoken to the M.O.D. the records were corrected.
    There has been a copy in the I.W.M. since 1994 - 95.
    It appeared that Regimental Records didn't show how the men had died . I wrote articles that were published in many Regimental Journals and Newsletters in the 1990s. It was one in the Green Howards Journal that caught the eye of the National Press in 1996 and the story was told in the Daily Mail and other Newspapers.
    Six of the 27 survivors were contacted, but sadly none are with us any longer.

    That's just about it.
    Brian"



    ss scillin | WW2Talk


    From the wiki link posted by TD:
    Scillin was only one example of Allied POWs being killed when enemy ships were sunk in the Mediterranean. Five others had been sunk in the preceding year with 2,000 casualties; Ultra had predicted each of the POW transportations.[2]

    There is a memorial plaque at the National Memorial Arboretum to the POWs lost at sea on
    Sebastiano Veniero (9 December 1941),
    Ariosto (15 February 1942),
    Tembien (27 February 42),
    Nino Bixio (17 August 1942),
    Loreto (13 October 1942) and
    Scillin (14 November 1942).[2]

    [2] Source for above: Brian Sims, again - BBC - WW2 People's War - S.S.SCILLIN
    "Information about the "embarkation Roll" which includes the 814 plus the 195 who didn't board, was given to the M.O.D.by the Italians in 1944. For some reason the circumstances of death were only given to the most persistent families.
    No reason has ever been given for withholding this information.
    "
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  9. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Apologies Cl1, I forgot to thank you for your work finding all your hard work re the list of Roberts's details. Thanks so much.Regards, Mavis
     
  10. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Oh my goodness!! I refreshed the page AFTER I apologized to Clive and didn't all the information re the S.S. SCILLIN, so didn't see it, thank you so much for all this. It was a mystery and the reason why I thought that they were two different men, as one had died in a troopship and the other as a P.O.W. Thank you so much you wonderful Forum members!!! Kindest regards, Mavis
     

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