Casualty List - 2938286 James Lyle Irvine RAE, Cameron Highlanders

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Chris2478, Feb 17, 2019.

  1. Chris2478

    Chris2478 Member

    Hi I have been doing some research into my grandad during WW2. I know he served with the Cameron Highlanders and was in North Africa and Italy. He was injured during the Battle of Monte Cassino, I was looking at the National Records at the casualty list and carnt seem to find any record of him on the list. I just wondered if this is common or have I done something wrong in the search.

    Regards
    Chris
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I don't know what you're expecting to find at the National Archives (Records?) or which 'casualty list' you were looking at, but I have a little information about the Cameron Highlanders at Cassino--are you able to post a name/number/date of injury?
     
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  3. Chris2478

    Chris2478 Member

    I didn't know if he would be on the injured list, was looking into when he might have been injured at Monte Cassino. That would be great if you could let me have some more information about the Cameron's. His name was James Lyle Irvine Rae and his army number was 2938286.

    Thank you
    Chris
     
  4. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I'm looking at a list of casualties (wounded and killed) sustained at Cassino, but that name RAE does not feature.

    This does not mean that he was not wounded, but he could have been wounded lightly and remained at duty.

    Are you 100% sure about his being wounded at Cassino and not elsewhere?

    More generally, that battalion--like many of the 4th Indian Division--really did have a bloody time in 1944. The Camerons lost their C.O. not long after leaving Cassino...
     
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  5. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Correction: the casualties for March and April are recorded by name, rank and number, but those for February are just added up as Officer and Other Ranks killed--if this man was wounded soon after the battalion's arrival in Cassino, his name may not have been recorded. They started taking casualties in the middle of February as they moved up: Portella > Cairo > Cassino > Snakeshead Ridge

    C & D-Coys arrived much earlier than the rest of the battalion as they'd been enlisted to do portering work for 1/4 Essex and 1 Royal Sussex.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  6. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    You are correct in saying that he cannot be found in the casualty lists. That is not necessarily unusual, not all hospitalisations and/or transfers to the x lists were reported. I would suggest that you send off for his records to get the full details of his service.
    Get a copy of military service records
     
  7. Chris2478

    Chris2478 Member

    Hi thank you for looking and getting back to me. Yeah according to my dad he was injured at Monte Cassino. He was in a lorry that got hit and my grandad was taken back to the UK as he had a arm injury, one of his arms had shrapnel in it and was shorter than the other, think the hospital he recovered in was in Mansfield area. He told me a few stories from the war I know he went on patrol with the Gurkas and they presented him with a knife, missing Rommel by half an hour things like that. Also I don't know if it's relevant he might have been in something called the Lovat Scouts? But carnt be sure of this. My dad is a bit reluctant to get his service record so respecting his wishes, I was just seeing what I could find out, I emailed the Cameron museum in the Summer and they gave me some info.

    Regards
    Chris
     
  8. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    2 Cameron Highlanders was one of three infantry battalions that formed 11 Indian Infantry Brigade.
    11 Indian Infantry Brigade was one of three infantry brigades that formed 4th Indian Division.

    Each of the three brigades had, by the time they were together at Cassino, one British battalion, one Indian battalion and one Gurkha battalion. If he spent time with gurkhas while with 2 Cameron Highlanders there's a good chance that it was with men of 2/7 Gurkha Rifles, the gurkha battalion from the same brigade.

    The Lovat Scouts was a different unit all together and did not arrive in Italy until August 1944.

    You grandad's service number indicates that he enlisted originally as a Cameron Highlander:

    Cameron Highlanders 2921001 - 2966000

    I would talk your father around and take Tony56's advice, because without his records this is likely the end of the road for specifics.
     
  9. Chris2478

    Chris2478 Member

    Thank you both for your time and advice it is very much appreciated thank you. I do think it might have been around February when he got injured. At least I've found out abit more about what his unit might have done. I will try and talk him around.

    Kind regards
    Chris
     
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  10. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Chris.

    If he was injured whilst driving a truck then that would put him in the Motor Transport Platoon of the Battalion. That quite probably saved his life at Cassino because the four Rifle Companies endured a gruelling month in Mar 44 up on Snakeshead Ridge. During this time, they sufffered daily harassing artillery, machine gun and mortar fire from the German positions that overlooked the ridge.

    The MT Platoon delivered soldiers and stores forward from the supply area known as Hove Dump. It is likely that he was injured whilst moving between Hove Dump and the village of Caira. The whole of the route was observed by German positions.

    Regards

    Frank
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  11. Chris2478

    Chris2478 Member

    Thank you for the information Frank, I know he drove a lorry after the war so I'm guessing he must have learnt how to drive one in the army. It's nice to learn about what he did during the war as fills in some gaps with what I've managed to find out. It sounds horrific with what they had to endure, they were all very brave men.

    Regards
    Chris
     
  12. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I forgot to mention, there is an excellent book by an officer with the battalion:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Charlie-Company-Service-Highlanders-1940-1944/dp/1862273650

    Alternatively, the author has taken part in a long series of interviews here:

    COCHRANE, PETER (Oral history)
     
  13. Chris2478

    Chris2478 Member

    Thank you Charley, I will have a look on Amazon now for the book.

    Kind regards
    Chris
     
  14. gmyles

    gmyles Senior Member

    Hi everyone.

    Just a thought.

    Can those who have the WDs for this Btn have a look and see if he has appeared at the bottom part of the Army Form W30009E (Field Return of Other Ranks) anytime since Cassino. You never know, we might get lucky.

    I have one for 12 Nov 44 and he is not mentioned on it.

    Gus
     
  15. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I did, but the old grey stuff was a bit tired at the time--will double check tonight.
     
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  16. Chris2478

    Chris2478 Member

    Hi everyone, I may have had a stroke of luck whilst searching some boxes today I've come across my grandads paybook. I don't know if it would throw any light on anything but has a report in it. PSX_20190218_120316.jpg PSX_20190218_120232.jpg PSX_20190218_120345.jpg
     
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  17. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Good stuff, that throws up a few more clues.

    Combining the information in the documents we have two periods of service with the Cameron Highlanders: 1/7/40 to 31/7/42 and 10/11/42 to 15/3/47, but overseas service only from 13/12/43.

    My suggestion is that he was with two different battalions of the Cameron Highlanders. The second spell was the 2nd battalion (the unit he was with at Cassino), but the first was highly likely to have been the 4th battalion. The first incarnation of the 4th battalion was captured at Saint-Valery-en-Caux (Normandy) in June 1940 during the closing stage of the Battle of France, but it was then reformed in the UK with fresh men in July 1940 (when your grandfather joined). It was disbanded in December 1942 to free up men for a newly reconstituted 2nd Battalion, which is when your grandfather got transferred away from A.A.C. The 2nd battalion needed reconstituting because it was lost in its entirety (along with the original 11th Indian Infantry Brigade) in the fall of Tobruk in June 1942. Peter Cochrane, the officer and author mentioned above, was one of the few members of both incarnations as he was evacuated before the fall, having been seriously wounded in the legs and subsequently contracting dysentery. A very brave man--awarded the MC and a DSO.

    I don't know anything about A.A.C., but I assume it stands for Anti-Aircraft Command--not my subject.

    You realise also, I take it, that those dates for overseas service are suggesting that he wasn't evacuated to the UK and that his medical discharge was in 1946.
     
  18. gmyles

    gmyles Senior Member

    AAC = Army Air Corps. Maybe this chap failed a Para course and was RTUd after 3 months.

    Gus
     
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  19. Chris2478

    Chris2478 Member

    Hi Charley, I know that the A.A.C. stands for the army air corps, my grandads Co signed up most of the unit for that, while they were on leave i believe. It was parachute related as my grandad wasn't very keen jumping out of a plane tho so was transferred back I think.
    Thank you for the information, it's nice to find out more about his role.

    Regards
    Chris
     
  20. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    That's interesting.

    7th Bn Cameron Highlanders converted to a parachute battalion (5th [Scottish] Parachute Battalion) in March 1942 and that unit was made up of volunteers from a selection of Scottish infantry units. He probably decided to give it a whirl and it didn't work out.

    Think you could be right.
     
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