25th Dragoons in India, 1945-7

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by GillT, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. Sjpix

    Sjpix Member

    Hi Everyone, Loving this thread re 25th Dragoons. Dad was Squadron A and I see GillT your loved one was as well.

    The 25ths were not odds and sods of men.
    My Father, the only Class One Mechanic with 25ths....... and his comrades were highly trained and skilled Army Soldiers. There was a core of specially trained men who transferred from 3rd Carabineers when Slim first decided that tanks could be a very valuable asset in the jungles of Burma. Dad was one of this cadre of men transferred in Feb 1941 to 25th Dragoons. He along with the other members of the cadre had been highly trained in all aspects of jungle war fare and survival ready for the second advance into the Arakhan in Jan 1944. The 25ths were transported secretly by sea in Dec 1943...this is an amazing story in its own right.....and were hidden in the jungle near Chamba. The Japanese were not expecting this superior battle fire from the Allies especially Sqd C of 25ths whose tank men were some of the most accurate gun fighters from the tanks, who were able to knock out the Japanese bunkers that up until them were unpenetrable. Without the new warfare techniques of air supply of supplies, the 25ths and the other units at The Admin Box would have all been slaughtered. The tanks were buried up to their turrets to guard the outer circle of the Admin Box to repel the Japanese. Other units war history state that without the fire power and protection of 25ths for the men on the ground, casualties would have been even worse. There are a lot of books about...Some Letters from Burma by Tom Grounds himself part of 25th Dragoons. So far I have come across 2 others whose loved ones were part of the 25th Dragoons. The Koheima Museum in York (they have a FB page) are amazing as is WW2 Burma Research Page on FB. All these folk are passionate that our loved ones must not be forgotten. Would love to chat to anyone whose loved ones were 25th Dragoons. There is a great War Diary FB page run by Andy Newson. He has obtained for me The 25ths War Diaries which make scary but riveting reading. The 25ths and their Lee Grant tanks played pivotal roles at The Battle of The Admin Box in Feb 1944 and helping to defeat The Japanese for the first time in WW2. The 25ths role is largely overlooked by History but one Book The Last Stand by Bryan Perret rates The Battle of The Box as one of the 10 battles in History that was won against all odds. Ranking alongside Little Big Horn, The Alamo, Arnhem Bridge etc.
    For me The 25ths fought in the worst conditions imaginable, all the public hears about re WW2 is the Battle of Britain and Dunkirk...... little or no knowledge or understanding of what went on in the jungles of Burma. It is no wonder these guys who returned home came back as very changed men scarred for life by the horrendous things they saw and endured. Most suffered Post War Syndrome that never left them...no help or understanding from the authorities of the day.
    These were exceedingly brave men who were sent into the jungles of Burma knowing they would probably not survive, these new jungle tactics were not tried and tested. But survive many did against all the odds. Odds and Sods of men... I do not think so.
     
    amanda Franks and richardmiles like this.
  2. Sjpix

    Sjpix Member

    Hi Gill the tanks look as though they have skirts ready for water training. I note they are Shermans rather than the earlier Lee Grants. You need to get hold of Tom Grounds Book....... he covers the 25ths from 1943 to Cocanada. It may put your loved ones war history in order for you.
     
  3. Sjpix

    Sjpix Member

    Tom Grounds Some Letters from Burma The Story of 25th Dragoons at War....... a must for Sq C.
     
  4. wiggy001

    wiggy001 New Member

    They are the Calling Blighty films, yes, however I believe that most have been lost. A large number were found in Manchester a few years back (during the town hall refurbishment if I remember correctly) but I've not found anything online relating to any men from London.
     
  5. A-Spencer

    A-Spencer New Member

    Hi sjpix good to see the Admin Box being mentioned. I don’t think enough is known about that battle. My dad was there. John E Spencer. He was an artist and he returned from the war with ptsd and never wanted to speak about it. Sometimes in his later years he would tell a couple of funny anecdotes from this time and when he was elderly he enjoyed reading the little information that’s available about the 25th Dragoons. In the main he didn’t want to remember that time, he considered most of it to have been managed by lunatics and to have been a waste of life. He was a good man. He enjoyed telling the story of the truck load of eggs.

    The story goes that they were marching around in Burma and had been lost for days and constantly on the alert for a Japanese ambush. Suddenly they heard an engine. After a complete scramble on their part it turned out to be a British army truck. Thinking ‘Great! Now we’ve got someone who can tell us where we are’ they flagged him down and he was glad to stop because his first words were ‘ I’m glad I’ve found you boys. Have you any idea where the —— division are? I’m supposed to deliver these eggs to them. I’ve been driving for days, can’t find anyone’ After neither party could discover any useful information from the other the driver said ‘buggered if I’m going any further. You have them.’ He unloaded all his eggs, turned around and drove back the way he had come. Dad used to say ‘Well, we hadn’t seen anything like a fresh egg for months! We fell upon that load and we didn’t care if the Japs could here us or anything, we fired up our billys and cooked and ate the lot!’ And he would chuckle at the remembrance of that moment.

    I always liked this story. It seemed like an honest to goodness tale of what it was like- and the kind of story you don’t often hear - just a really human tale of the ordinary privations of war and the hungry tired guys, up to that point in extreme fear of a Japanese ambush, throwing protocols and caution to the wind for a feast of eggs.
     
  6. A-Spencer

    A-Spencer New Member

    Except, as has just been pointed out to me, my dad would have said ‘company’ not ‘division’ - I know nothing about army structures!
     
    Sjpix likes this.
  7. Sjpix

    Sjpix Member

    Thank you for sharing your wonderful egg story. Dad suffered all his life with flash backs... post War Syndrome. As he aged these got worse as he was no longer able to block the memories out. He was told to keep busy all the time when he came home from war. He worked as a postman on unsociable shifts, came home at lunchtime and had several part time jobs... WI Dow cleaner, sextant, gardener. He also had an enormous garden of his own. He worked all the time. I know understand why. He and so many of our loved ones that came ho.e suffered all their lives.
    There is a great Facebook Page dedicated aged to WW,2 Burma research. There are many members whose loved ones were at The Admin Box. It is a very knowledgeable group , well managed and wanting to share their knowledge.
     
    richardmiles likes this.
  8. A-Spencer

    A-Spencer New Member

    Thanks Sjpix I will check this out.
     
  9. richardmiles

    richardmiles Active Member

    Could you give me the name of the fab page you mention,run by Andy Newsom
     
    Sjpix likes this.
  10. Sjpix

    Sjpix Member

    Hi Richard Miles...... I am so hoping your Father was Lt Eric Miles? If so, I would very much like to "chat".
    Andrew Newson.... his Facebook page is British War Diary Copying Service....... he is excellent.
    Also on Facebook is WW2 Burma Research Page........ a mine of info with amazing members.
    LAstly....The Tank Museum have almost full copies of The 25ths War Diary...they send electronically for 10.00. If Lt E Miles is your loved one he is mentioned.
    Please let me know if Eric is your Dad........ Many thanks. Sue
     
    richardmiles likes this.
  11. richardmiles

    richardmiles Active Member

    Thanks Sue. Yes my father was Lt. Eric Shakespear Miles. I've ordered the 25th's War Diary from Andrew Newson. Eric went back to The Argentine and only came back to London in 1982. I met John Leyin, his driver a few months before Eric died. He'd been trying to trace him without success before John's son found a mention of my uncle Jack Shakespear Miles as an RAF veteran in Vancouver. I met John, a sprightly lovely man in London and we arranged to go and see Eric in his nursing home. Eric by then had a degree of dementia. As soon as John saw Eric in an armchair, he sprang into a ramrod stiff salute, which I'll never forget. Emotional it was. Richard
     
  12. Sjpix

    Sjpix Member

    What squadron was Eric with?
    Re my Dad Sgt James Nicholson.... he was listed as Sqn A in the war diaries. But the Ranchi photograph may suggest another Sqn.... Maybe the HQ Sqd? Have struggled and continue to struggle to find out about my Dad's war.... He rarely talked about his war years. Any info you may be able to share would be so appreciated.
     
    richardmiles likes this.
  13. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Gill,

    I am a member of the Indian Military History Society, who publish a journal 'Durbar' and in the latest issue was a notice seeking articles. Could be an option for you? See their website: Indian Military Historical Society
     
  14. AL90

    AL90 New Member

    Hi. I am new to the forum.

    My Grandfather served with the 25th Dragoons in India. I have grown up listening to fantastic stories about his time there and I decided to do some googling to see if I could find any references online and I am happy to see I am not alone.
    He is at the age of 94 now and still loves to talk about his time in the war. I am thinking about working with him to write an account of his years there which I would be happy to share if anyone is interested.

    It was obviously a long time ago, but if anyone has any questions they would like me to ask him, post them on here and I will see if he can help.

    Cheers.
     
  15. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Perhaps the Imperial War Museum would be interested in conducting an Oral History with him? Listened to a few recently. See: Sound Archive There is no contact point on that link alas. So try this online form and good luck: Contact Us  · IWM Portal
     
  16. jimbop

    jimbop Banned

    hi al90,
    if he was in burma i would love to read any stories and memories he can remember, as im sure a lot on here would too.
    cheers,
    jim.
     
  17. AL90

    AL90 New Member

    Hi Jim

    That's good to know. I'll start writing the account and if hes happy for me to do so ill post all the photos on here too.
    He joined the 25th Dragoons just after Burma and remained with them in India right up until they were disbanded after the war.

    I will find out as much as I can and post it on here when its complete.

    cheers
     
  18. richardmiles

    richardmiles Active Member

    Eric was in B Squadron 4 Troop leader during the Admin Box and afterwards when they converted to Sherman tanks remained in B Squadron as Troop leader of 1 Troop.I have his Troop Roll Book of 1 Troop with names of his men.
     
    Mikko Heikkinen likes this.
  19. richardmiles

    richardmiles Active Member

    Hello
     
  20. richardmiles

    richardmiles Active Member

    Hi AL90, long shot but have my father's Troop Roll Book, B Squadron, 1 Troop when the 25th Dragoons went to India after Burma with the names of all his men in that troop. The surname of your grandfather would be useful. I'm also a member of the FB site of WW2 BURMA RESEARCH, search 25th dragoons, if you'd prefer to message me. He was Lt. Eric Miles, a volunteer from Argentina.
     

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