Cameron Highlander, Tobruk. POW PG10/PG68/PG55 1942/3

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by alistair wilson, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. Was he then moved to pg62/51? I will write to the Swiss Archives as you recommend. Currently waiting for MI9 interview.
     
  2. Here we go then... MI9 reports for WIlson and Baptist are quite different, so they must have made acquaintances in Switzerland, rather than in camp.
    So my grandfather left Busetto on 9/9/43 and went to Cremona where Captain Rizzo from Romanengro gave him and 2 others shelter for 3 weeks from 25/9-15/10.
    Then a one-armed guide (surely he can't be too hard to identify?!) took them on a train to a station near Como where another guide looked after them until 17/10, and finally a third guide led them to the border at Campo Colonia, where he arrived on 10/10/43. Think there's some issues with the timeline here. But the route and names are good leads to continue with. Would love to know who he travelled with.
    Attached is Baptist's report too, which conflicts with the camps which i'd previously thought he was in.
    Still not found anything on J.T. Forsyth post war.
     
    Guy Hudson likes this.
  3. Oh , file too large..... well you got the synopsis on Wilson.
    Baptist was in Bari PG75, then pg54 Farasabina, then 62/02 Sestosangiovanni working in factories and yards, then pg62 bergamo (Mizzanello?) 29/4 until 9/9/43 doing farm work. He escaped and stayed in Brescia with partisans (Erminia Lorenzetti, Gambara). They got the tram from Brescia to Gardone and walked over the mountains to Tirano, arriving on 09/10/43.
     
    Guy Hudson likes this.
  4. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    alistair, some what late in posting these attachments. Been rather busy with other things. You may well have read a account of the destruction of 11 Brigade in Tobruck? If you have not, then I would strongly advice that you get in contact with Charley, see post 3.

    What he does not know about the 4th Indian Division, then its not worth knowing. Nice offer by the way Charley. The pages are from FOURTH INDIAN DIVISION by LIEUT-COLONEL G. R. STEVENS O.B.E.

    Regards
    Stu.

    rsz_167.jpg
    rsz_168.jpg
    rsz_169.jpg
    rsz_170_&_171.jpg
    rsz_172_&_173.jpg
    rsz_174_&_175.jpg
    rsz_176.jpg
     
  5. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Thanks, Stu.

    I did send him a bundle of material, but not those pages from the divisional history as I don't have a photographic or digital copy of it--only a physical book--so thanks for uploading it.
     
    alistair wilson likes this.
  6. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    A while back, I did try to obtain the Historical Records of the Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders, 1932-1948: Volumes V; VI London
    William Blackwood 1952. But like all the other regimental histories in this division, if you can find them, they are rather expensive.
    Which can be a touch frustrating to say the least.
    Regards
    Stu.
     
  7. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Tell me about it.

    I've been looking for original editions of Capital Campaigners (for 3/10 Baluch) and Solah Punjab (for 4/16th Punjabis); the former goes for at least fifty squid and the latter almost a hundred.

    That said, I know somebody who collects children's books.
    As little kids tend to shred and colour even (especially?) their favourite books, first editions in nice condition can be super rare.

    Get a run of jacketed Biggles first editions in top shape and you could sell them for a decent car--the last time I saw a jacketed edition of The Camels Are Coming it sold for £11,000!
     
  8. My aunt found these.
     

    Attached Files:

    Guy Hudson likes this.
  9. I've found the one armed smuggler in Ian English's book. "Home by Christmas"
    Sounds like he worked out of Copella, not far from Busseto.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Stuc

    Stuc Member

    Dear All,
    I am completely knew to this too, so appreciate your understanding and any help possible. I am trying to find out information about my grandfather Private William Wylie (2937054) from Govan. He was better known as "Waggie" Like so many others loved ones on here my grandfather never ever spoke about the war. He was posted missing on 21-6-42 and later as a POW from 21-6-42 to 24-5-42. From research I am assuming these dates would tie in with him having been in action at Tobruk and subsequently captured when it fell. From national archive records he was in POW camp PG60 in Lucca, Florence. This POW camp was only active from June 42 until Nov42 when the Red Cross shut it down as it was unfit for purpose and 150 men had malaria with 8 deaths. We know that Waggie escaped (from where and when we do not know) and was sheltered under the floor boards by an Itailian family called the Rigardo's. We think that 6 men escaped, with 3 heading for the Alps and the other 3 staying under the floor boards in Montelupo. A letter from the Italian family confirm that Waggie was with 2 others but we have no idea who they were. My mum seems to think that one of the three who went over the alps had a limb removed with frostbite and he subsequently wrote a book of the escape. We have no way of confirming this or what its called if it actually exists. Waggie would never discuss anything to do with the war. Any help or if anyone knows anything I would be extremely grateful to speak with you.............. Thanks Stuart
     
  11. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Hello Stuart,

    You should send for his POW records from the International Red Cross (see elsewhere on this forum). In the meantime I'll check up on families by the name of Rigardo in Montelupo.

    Vitellino

    Edited to say that the family name Rigardo seems to link you grandfather to the Piemonte region of Italy where there is a settlement called Montelupo Albese in the province of Cuneo. From here the men would have set out for Switzerland.
    Montelupo Albese - Wikipedia
    When PG 60 was closed he may have been sent up to Piemonte to a work camp - it will be in his records - from where he escaped at the Italian Armistice (08 09 43) and took refuge with the Rigardo family..
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  12. Stuc

    Stuc Member

    Hi Vitellino,

    Thank you for your help and assistance it is much appreciated. We have a letter from a Paul Dennis (who we dont know), who posted the letter from Turin. to Waggie after the war congratulating him on getting married. He says in the letter that he hopes he will come visit and says that he and his wife will be happy to go down to Montelupo and revist the places where he and his two friends were hidden. I dont know if Paul was one of them and got married to someone in the family of the Italians who sheltered them or if Paul is Italian and married one of the family who sheltered Waggie. I tracked Montelupo to Fiorentino, Florence which is very close to the region of Capannori where PG60 was. This makes me wonder did he escape from PG60 before it was shut down and well before the armistice?
    Cheers
    Stuart
     
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  13. Stuc

    Stuc Member

    Hi Vitellino,

    My mother is also seems to think that the the father of the Rigardo family was a professor? If correct this should narrow it down considerably.
    Cheers
    Stuart
     
  14. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Stuart,

    I live in Italy, not far from PG 60, and can assure you that the surname Rigardo is very uncommon in this part of Tuscany, hence I excluded Montelupo Fiorentino after checking the white pages and local industrial/commercfial activities. Then I found quite a few references to Rigardo in Piemonte.

    Now, regarding escapes. They were very few and far between before the Armistice and were documented by the Italians. I have looked on the website www.campifascisti.it and there is no record of escapes before the time the camp was closed in November 1942. Whereas some men were sent south to PG65 others may have been sent to northern camps and then to work camps in Piemonte. Most of the men in Piemonte, who were often on farms, escaped following the armistice and a number made it to Switzerland.

    Have you looked on the National Archives website to see whether there is an Escape and Evasion Report for your grandfather or Paul Dennis?

    The only way to find out is to send for his POW records from the International Red Cross.

    Vitellino
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  15. Stuc

    Stuc Member

    Hi Vitellino,
    I couldnt find the proper Red Cross website with a request form for his PWO records. There is very little in the UK national archives for my grandfather apart from him being listed originally missing in action then on the POW listings as in PG60 there is no record of him being anywhere else according to UK records. Do you have a link to the red cross records request? If you have an email I can send you through the letters and a photograph of the Rigardo family otherwise I will try to upload on here. Thanks again for your help and experience
    Cheers
    Stuart
     
  16. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Tricky Dicky and Stuc like this.
  17. Stuc

    Stuc Member

  18. Mark Chaplin

    Mark Chaplin New Member

    Hi, my grandfather Douglas Chaplin 13021074 was in the Cameron Highlanders. He was a POW in Italy and escaped through Switzerland.
     
  19. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Hello Mark and welcome,

    I've found your grandfather on the International Red Cross reigster of prisoners of war, WO 392/21, held in the National Archives at Kew. His last known camp, according to the IRC, was PG 62 at Grumellino, Bergamo.

    upload_2020-4-21_21-53-4.png

    Many of the prisoners at PG 62 were sent out to work camps, and seem to have had more success in making it to Switzerland tha those from the main camps.

    If you have not already got it, I suggest you send for a copy of his service record from Glasgow.

    On 25 May you can apply for his POW record from the International Red Cross. You need to do so as soon as you can after 8 a.m. when the service opens.

    Vitellino
     
  20. Mark Chaplin

    Mark Chaplin New Member

    Hi Vitellino,

    Thank you for your message. I'm a bit new to all of this but will definately apply for his service record. May I ask why you have to apply soon after 8am to the International Red Cross? Is it just because they get so many requests and it is on a first come, first served basis?

    Thanks,
    Mark
     

Share This Page