My great uncle: John 'Jack' Rogerson

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Emmajanewatts, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. idler

    idler GeneralList

    In a word - no! It's an odd place for a census number and it can't be an LTIN or anything connected with the landing as it would have been hidden with the wading screens in place.
     
  2. Emmajanewatts

    Emmajanewatts Member

    A massive hug and kiss to everyone, i havent been on here for a week as ive been very poorly so just catching up. I will slowly work my way through them.
    I really feel humbled by all your help, thankyou so much everyone xxx
     
  3. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    Good luck with your quest, Emma Jane.
     
  4. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    There is another post about Jack Lee here. http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/45130-captain-jack-lee-14-medium-regt-ra-d-day1/?hl=%2Bcaptain+%2Blee+%2Bmedium I have been asked to talk about the role of the COBU on D Day at the RA Historical Society meeting on 8th April in Larkhill. I'd like include some of the points and images on this thread.

    The CWGC have not been particularly consistent in the way the COBU war dead are treated. Under his secondary unit Jack Lee is listed under 14 Medium Regiment and Captain Llewellyn, killed on 6th June another COB officer is listed as unit unknown.

    The lack of attribution of their correct unit has made it hard for descendants to know what these men did. While every man's death is a sadness and the phrase "We Will Remember them " is unqualified, it is worth knowing that the men who volunteered for service in these units would have known that it was particularly difficult and dangerous. We know the names and fates of most of the officers, but it is hard to identify the individual sailors and soldiers who shared the risks.
     
  5. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    *
    Hello Sheldrake,

    If you take a look at the link in the second paragraph of Message #22, you will find another three COBU personnel killed on D-Day, thus;

    PLATT, ARTHUR WILLIAM
    Rank: Captain
    Service No: 232847
    Date of Death: 06/06/1944
    Age: 24
    Regiment/Service: Royal Artillery, 86 (The Hertfordshire Yeo.) Field Regt.
    Grave Reference: XIV. L. 10.
    Cemetery: BAYEUX WAR CEMETERY
    Additional Information: Son of Herbert William and Nellie Platt, of Four Oaks, Sutton Coldfield, Warwickshire.

    BROAD, WILLIAM ROBERT
    Rank: Telegraphist
    Service No: C/JX359269
    Date of Death: 06/06/1944
    Age: 20
    Regiment/Service: Royal Navy, Bombardment Unit 3
    Grave Reference: XI. D. 9.
    Cemetery: BAYEUX WAR CEMETERY~
    Additional Information: Son of William Edward and Elizabeth Edith Broad, of St. Margarets, Twickenham, Middlesex.

    PORTER, SPENCER CHARLES
    Rank: Telegraphist
    Service No: C/JX572702
    Date of Death: 06/06/1944
    Regiment/Service: Royal Navy, Bombardment Unit 3
    Grave Reference: IVA. N. 20.
    Cemetery: RANVILLE WAR CEMETERY
    Additional Information: Son of Sidney Hugh and May Porter, of Sidcup, Kent.

    -same issue. The men are identified under their parent unit, with no mention of the COBU. I would have expected something like an 'attached' recognition by the CWGC.

    With Capt. AW Platt I believe there is also some doubt that he was actually serving with the 86 (Hertfordshire Yeomanry) Field Regiment, RA. He just happened to land with them!

    NB. I have done a bit more research on Capt. Jack Lee and traced a memorial acknowledgement at a church in Ravensden, Bedfordshire, for him. I don't yet know his connection with Ravensden (he was originally from the North West of England and went to school in London) but will be making a trip out there to investigate matters.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  6. Emanuel1940

    Emanuel1940 Member

    Hi Steve,

    See the newspaper clipping attached. Lee lived in Ravensden with his wife.

    I would love to track Jack's two sons, Malcolm and Adrian. Another Old Emanuel who helps me track families had this to say:

    "Jack married Olive Grace Humphries in 1935 at Camberwell and that they had two sons, Malcolm (1939) and Adrian (1941) both born in Bedford. Jack also appears to have had a brother, Reginald William, born 1908. Olive is a bit of a mystery. She seems to have remarried (Richard Davison) in 1946 but thereafter I have not found her."
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    *
    Hello Daniel,

    That's what I call progress... That gives me quite a few leads for my trip to Ravensden!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  8. Aerial photographic confirmation of Lebisey map dated 26 Jun 44 (from Danny's post #54) by reconnaissance Sortie 400-0283 on 24 Jun 44:

    1. Lebisey map rotated to show the North (approximately) on top, with the outline of Frame 3173 in Blue and the Close-up in Green (see point 3 below):
    1. Lebisey 26 Jun 44 - N on top.jpg

    2. Frame 3173 showing the location of the Close-up in Green. The number of craters is staggering:
    2. Sortie 400-0283, Frame 3173, 24 Jun 44.jpg

    3. Close-up of Frame 3174 on which the "7 stationary vehs on rd" are clearly visible. The additional "1 off" is however not visible:
    3. Frame 3173 Close-up.jpg

    Michel
     
  9. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Great stuff.

    The spacing of the leading group of three - first one, long gap, two close together - tallies with the photo of the knocked out carriers. Is that blob 7 o'clock from the lead vehicle the '1 off', perhaps?

    I don't suppose that there is anything identifiable closer to the village because of the shelling?
     
  10. Our bill

    Our bill Well-Known Member

    I have so enjoyed this thread unfold with the all the helpful information. And this is why I have nothing but admiration for the members of this site. You are all amazing everyone of you . And I got another history lesson . God bless all the men who died and may they RIP. Forever to be remembered . Elsie.
    Emma I feel for you as l like everyone on this site knows that when you research the insanity of war on a personal level it is oh so very painful. Elsie
     
  11. Yes, it looks like these may be the carriers on the photo. The "1 off" veh might also be this blob you mention, since there is no other obvious object on sight.


    No, unfortunately no other vehicle is visible on the rest of the aerial photos I've seen. The road in the centre of the village has trees alongside it, so some wrecks might be there. But these aerial photos were apparently shot from 28,000 ft, so it's difficult to tell for sure, whereas on low level photographs it's often possible to identify the type of vehicle, especially on oblique ones.
     
  12. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Emma Jane,

    I was at the National Archives this afternoon and had a quick look into the Missing in action reports for the 2nd Warwicks. John is not mentioned amongst the pages, which is not that surprising, but the day in question was and I have attached the relevant pages here.

    These may give you a general idea about what could have happened to him.

    Best wishes

    Steve

    DSC08469.JPG DSC08470.JPG

    DSC08471.JPG DSC08472.JPG
     
    4jonboy likes this.
  13. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Emmajane's not been on the forum for a few weeks.
    Such a shame as this thread has turned out to be one of the most interesting ones we've had recently.
    Thanks to the wonderful work by members on here, I think she has more information than she would have ever thought possible.

    Lesley
     
  14. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    I noticed that too Lesley, but I thought I'd just place these on here and let her find them when she next comes back. I agree with you about the brilliant way this thread has developed. :)

    The reports are not conclusive, but at least it paints a clearer picture of what those men were facing at the time. As a Missing in action file, the 2nd Wawicks was a decent document, with some nice detail and input from those present.

    Best wishes

    Steve
     
  15. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    In her post #25 EJ said:-
    Do we now have 5 RN ratings that might match with these Known Unto God burials?
     
  16. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Another account of the ambush in Lebisey or something similar somewhere else?? Might be worth cross-checking with 33 Fd Regt's war diary:


    Bob 'Buck' Taylor, R Sigs attached 1 Cdo Bde from Before they Fade: Reminisces of a Soldier's Life by Today's Chelsea Pensioners.
     
  17. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Emanuel1940,

    As mentioned at Message # 67, my wife and I took the promised trip to Ravensden today to see what we could find out about Capt Jack Lee, or more so his family.

    Ravensden, like many places in Bedfordshire, covers an area where there are a few hamlets that have the same first name. The Chuch at which Capt Jack Lee is commenmorated is situated in the appropriately named 'Ravensden Church End'. This hamlet is quite small, the pre-war housing easy to spot and indeed, we identified an old house which we beieve is 'Northfield' (not Northfields); where Capt Jack Lee perhaps resided. However, no further progress was made today.

    The Church is only open on Sundays for the duration of the service, we thought it too instrusive to call at the property we believe is Northfield and the local gastro pub - The Horse and Jockey (which, for those interested, has a very good reputation) - rammed with diners; so no avenues to explore today.

    I will, however, visit The Horse & Jockey one eveing this week if I can and see if I can find out any further information about the family.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  18. Emanuel1940

    Emanuel1940 Member

    Please let me know if you find anything Steve. Many thanks. Daniel.
     
  19. millyb44

    millyb44 Member

    Here is a picture of the 2nd Battalion. my uncle was in b company. family 033.jpg
     
  20. AJER

    AJER New Member

    Emma,

    I have recently returned from Lebisey and posted about the battle in which your great uncle died on the thread mentioned by Sheldrake in message #64. Being a typical infantryman and therefore not at my best with sophisticated things like electronics & computers I have been unable to cut and paste it, but you may find it of interest.

    It seems the evidence points inevitably to he conclusion that your great uncle fought and died alongside Capt Jack Lee RA in his detachment when it was ambushed fighting with 2 Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment on Lebisey ridge in what is now part of Herouvillle, a North Eastern suburb of Caen, and that there is a memorial to the fallen close to the spot where he died fighting bravely back against his ambushers.

    Best Wishes

    Anthony
     

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