Moving pictures Oosterbeek 18 September. What is trailing the jeep, at the end of the clip?

If they are ramps perhaps they were used as makeshift bridges to overcome minor obstacles such as ditches when off-roading? Now that Lawrence mentions it I do believe the Para on the back behind the fellow with clogs is packing a Bren.

Nijmegen, I like your new avatar, very apropos ...

 

I don't think ramps woud be carried by Recce jeeps, especially as A troop had some difficulty unloading their gliders.
I am told that Sgt Henry Venes language was most colourful!

I have some front views of jeeps but the upload system on this appears complicated
(my photos are in my pictures)


Lawrence

 

Here are a couple of views of the single tire trough-like ramp. The first is from British Pathe's "The Red Devils of Arnhem" newsreel. I'm not sure where the second comes from?

Regards ...

 

To add to the discussion http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/23203-help-with-paratrooper-names/page-6?hl=%2Bgordon+%2Bbates#entry368396 a clip with Corporal Gordon Bates and Trooper Dick Heyworth (according to Karel Margry).

http://lostatnijmegen.pre-jump.nl/18-september-oosterbeek

I think it is doubtful that the "Gordon Bates" on the airfield is the same "Gordon Bates" filmed on 18 September on the Utrechtseweg.

Who's who?

 

Nijmegen,

I'm inclined to think it's Bates on the Utrechtseweg. They both have the same hairstyles and beaks that go on forever ... I noticed too that Bates has the Para wings patch on his shoulder. If it's not him he has a lookalike that just happens to be in 1 Recce also. But as we all know comparing images is only guesswork at best.

Oddly it was Bates' nose that led me to to 1st Airborne Reconnaissance Squadron in the first place ...

Regards ...

Note: You can't see it in the cropped comparison but both men have rings on the same finger.

 

What you are actually saying is: "It must be him", yes? I also noticed the ring on his finger. But why change the scarf? The white one looked fine to me!

 

Nijmegen,

Stepping back a bit the only photo that gives a positive identification for Bates is the one on the Pegasus Archive showing him by the glider with others. We are told he is "Corporal Gordon Bates (centre) of No.1 Gun, Polsten Section". I don't know what the source is for that. You probably noticed on Paul's thread there is some discussion on the man beside him as being Sgt. McGregor and not Sergeant Leslie McCreedie.

But yes for the time being I think the man shown in the two photos and your video is the same. Whether he is someone called Bates remains to be seen. As for the white scarf/kerchief maybe it got a little soiled from mopping his brow ...?

I even considered the possibility he was Jose M. Irala, but that one didn't really fly. You have to admit he does have a Spanish look to him.

Ok that should get me good and shot down .... :P

 

Not correct, Remember Arnhem, photograph page 113 top one

 

Mr. Irala was 20 years old, "our" man was in his late twenties, I think. Regarding the Spanish look, I am Dutch and I am therefore more familiar with Dutch noses. What I mean is that I don't know what a typical English nose looks like...


On 18 September, two jeeps with glider loading ramps. The right picture shows the jeep of Sergeant Bill Bentall of "D" Troop.

 

Trackfrower, on 31 Jul 2013 - 18:17, said:


I don't think ramps woud be carried by Recce jeeps, especially as A troop had some difficulty unloading their gliders.
I am told that Sgt Henry Venes language was most colourful!

I have some front views of jeeps but the upload system on this appears complicated
(my photos are in my pictures)


Lawrence

Not correct, Remember Arnhem, photograph page 113 top one

Strange. In my copy of Remember Arnhem There are no photographs on page 113.

What is the caption?

L

 

Nijmegen,

How does Trooper Dick Heyworth fit into the picture. I assume you mean the man seated behind the driver?

I have no idea what a "typical nose" is based on nationality what I do know is that our man Bates has a very distinctive and prominent one that helps in identification. Like I said the Irala suggestion is a red herring which didn't gain any support.

Notice the glint of light on the creases of Bates smock as he turns his arm. It may explain what appears to be a stripe in the straight on photo.

Cheers ...

 

Yes!

Yes!

I thought it was a para badge?



The more I think about it, the fact that the CO Gough ended up at the Rhine Bridge so soon, deteriorated the strength of 1 Airborne Recce squadron with so many well-armed jeeps. It was used in an ad-hoc manner, alas.

 

This is the Top pic opposite page 113


Cheers
Paul

 

Looking again at the clip of the Mobelwagen does anyone else see a curved shape (like the track of another vehicle?) to the far left across on the other side of the junction.

I find it very interesting that the clip has now been dated as being on the 20 September. If I recall this was when there would have been heavy fighting just to the west of this spot with 10 Para Bn being blasted out of the houses to the east of the MDS crossroads.

It casts much doubt on the thought I had that this was one of the vehicles that had been encountered by 3 para Bn on the evening of 17 Sept and also makes it possible (likely?) that this was one of the vehicles from the Dreijenesweg that could be redeployed south of the railway after the withdrawal of 4 Para Brigade?

Regards

Tom

 

I just found out that the house at the Utrechtseweg-Lebretweg junction that belonged to "our" camera man (A), was hit by an English shell on 21 September (the damage can be seen in the picture on the left). Thereafter the German Möbelwagen was filmed at the entrance of the house. In the afternoon, the Germans started broadcasting via loudspeakers - placed on top of the camera man's house - to the English in the Dennenkamp Estate (between A and the MDS [??? ] crossroads B), hoping for their surrender.

Already on 20 September the Germans were back on the premises of the camera man, with a tank and machine guns.

 

Looks like the blast damage occurred near the window next to the porch that faces onto Lebretweg which (if correct) would confirm the post war reconstruction which can be seen on the present structure.

Tom, I can see the object you are referring to at the junction beyond the German group but there is not enough detail to make out what it could be.

Quite interesting ...

 

I concur!

Cee, I can't see what you and Tom see...

 

I think this is what Tom is referring to ...?

 

I see it now!

Let's investigate further. I made a little slomo of that area.

http://lostatnijmegen.pre-jump.nl/18-september-oosterbeek

I can see a puff of smoke? Sandbags?

 

Wow, you may have something there! A gun emplacement and firing up the street? Shot through the side porch window. From the fewer number of Germans on the corner it may have been taken a little bit earlier.

Excellent find ...