1st Bn Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders In France

Discussion in '1940' started by brickmaker, Aug 2, 2010.

  1. brickmaker

    brickmaker Senior Member

    Thanks garry - very interesting, I must try and get hold of a copy of the book
     
  2. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    Re "Atonement". True, I forgot to mention the Lancastrian, but I'm hardly a BEF obsessive, JCB. Sorry to sound pedantic but the reason I cared and still care is personal. 1) My father was there in that mess - not a film extra, but an ordinary soldier who got to see more death and dying than most. So much horror that he wouldn't speak of it for more than thirty years afterwards. 2) I'm a director of a small documentary production company, so I understand how careless research has a knock on effect. Granted, we all make mistakes but in Atonement's case, one mistake was compounded by another as you well know. The result? How many young people saw that film, will see it in future re-runs, and go away with yet another distorted view of history, neatly packaged as entertainment?
     
  3. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    Sorry Cameronlad , tongue in cheek comment ,I would probably count myself as a BEF obsessive !:) I wasn't aiming the comment at you directly.

    This film though was entertainment from a fictional book and if they got the odd detail wrong I don't see it's a big deal .
     
  4. Roxy

    Roxy Senior Member

    I suspect that 'Atonement' is by no means the worst at getting historical facts inaccurate in films.

    ;-)

    Roxy
     
  5. LondonNik

    LondonNik Senior Member

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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  6. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    Dear Garry,

    Thanks for posting the OP drawing - its a great view of the area. One thing has puzzled me for a while - were the Camerons aware of the supporting British tank action of the 27th? Some anecdotal evidence suggests that they were not only unaware of the supporting tanks' arrival, but that one anti-tank unit to the west of La Bassee actually fired on them and knocked at least one out...

    Nick

    As far as I've been able to discover, despite later second hand accounts, the counter attack on the morning of 27th May by the Cameron Highlanders to repel Rommel’s tanks crossing the canal west of La Bassee did't involve British tanks at all.
    Although Brig Gartlan had made earlier promises of a supporting British counter attack by 25th Infantry Brigade involving “I” tanks, this was repeatedly delayed and in the end simply didn’t materialize.
    The resulting counter attack by the (remaining) fourty five men of ‘A’ Company (led by Major Riach) Cameron Highlanders was made in conjunction with six French tanks, with the leading tank being guided into action by CSM J.Stott of ‘A’ Company. Although wounded in the action, he continued to direct them forward by tapping out instructions against the side of the tank’s armour. Stott was recommended for the DCM but was later captured during the retreat to Dunkirk. Of the six French tanks that took part, one was lost to enemy fire. Of the 45 men of ‘A’ Company who took part, only 18 survived the action – and of those only 6 were unwounded. All QOCH first hand accounts support this, but there is no hard evidence (that I know of) regarding British tanks or the 25th IG arriving then or later to change events. By mid afternoon, Gartlan had ordered the QOCH's retreat, but the balls-up and the loss of most if not all of B, C and D companies after that is another story. Garry.
     
  7. LondonNik

    LondonNik Senior Member

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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  8. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    The word desperation barely covers what was going on! The whole scenario can be described as military brass being badly prepared, out of their depth, outgunned and outnumbered at every turn. A case of WW1 trench mentality. Sadly the idea of blitzkreig war based on the rapid movement of armour was long known, but as always (and even today we still haven't learned from it) we chose to send brave men into a war with Stone age under-equipment. Churchill's use of the word "Miracle" to describe the outcome at Dunkirk was inspirational PR at its best but inevitably it was in order to cover up one of the greatest military disasters of our time - and some of the worst military leadership ever known; Belgian, French and yes - British!
     
  9. rickster1964

    rickster1964 Member

    You go away for a few weeks and CAMERONLAD makes some more amazing posts
     
  10. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    Something for 51st Highlander and fellow Cameron posters.
    Three pictures attached. First is a news photo some may already be familiar with of the 1st Camerons leaving for France in September '39. Second is one of my father Leonard taken in 1929 aged 19 (standing on the left) and the third is an older wiser man taken in 1940 with the BEF (a studio hand tinted photo thought to have been taken in France - the BD tunic is the 1937 pattern. He was issued the buttoned 1940 BD only after his return home.)
     

    Attached Files:

  11. tommy40

    tommy40 Member

    Nice nice pictures Garry. Helmets covers (sacking covers) are also nice, some where found in Flanders a few years ago... Thanks for sharing.
     
  12. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    Nice nice pictures Garry. Helmets covers (sacking covers) are also nice, some where found in Flanders a few years ago... Thanks for sharing.

    Some extra found pictures here re the battle for La Bassee.
    The first is a live action photo from German positions around the main canal bridge to the town.
    The second shows German armour around the same bridge a little later.
    The third is what was left from a smashed French Panhard AV in the town.
    Fourth shows men of C & D companies QOCH being made to fill in crater holes in the main street.
    Fifth is a composite picture, but note the wrecked Matildas - the two British tanks photographed in open countryside somewhere north east or north west of Violaines, not La Basse itself - but further proof that they were sent - too late - on the 27th May, and too late to change events. Brig Gartlan. 5th Bde. (wrongly) reported 16 were eventually sent, only TEN actually went out (another had broken down and two were delayed with track problems and never arrived. Only two returned, plus a third crew.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. LondonNik

    LondonNik Senior Member

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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  14. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    The mystery of the Matildas deepens!!!!
    I'm awaiting some war diary files from Andy, so will check this out for details and come back asap.
     
  15. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    Based on sight of the reports from Mjr Parkes, I've edited my earlier post re their numbers and location to give a more accurate view. The report evidences the fact that they split into two lines of attack, positioning five east and five west approximately 1.5 kilometers north of Violaines. All available reports state enemy tank and infantry activity around the village was massed and intense even before they arrived by 16.15 hrs earliest. The Cameron's HQ, A and AT Coys got away from Violaines by appx 15.45 hrs latest and it would seem the tanks could well have become aware of this, so I doubt if they ever ventured further than the fields to the left and right above the village and certainly not further south toward La Bassee which had already been encircled and cut off. In any event the Mk I's had no orders to proceed that far anyway. I also doubt any were hit by friendly fire. There is more chance they were taken out by the sheer number and calibre of enemy tanks - at least one hundred plus roaming in their immediate area at the time. But if you have any anecdotal evidence it would be worth checking out the detail.
     
  16. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    Thanks to Andy I've finally managed to acquire the QOCH War Dairies.
    Buried away inside was also the full list of POW's (mainly NCO's and OR's).

    The forgotten. Not even the official history bothered to list them. So I have!

    I've fiddled the colour settings to enhance the faded blue type so names can be more easily recognised. I've spotted a few names and have some photos of them during incarceration. I'll post the full three page list in the main POW thread tonight and hopefully the photos as well.

    Meanwhile I've attached the first page here also, because name also stood out - 2926874 Pvte G. Gair, whose I.D tag was found on the beach near Bray Dunes by Tommy40. Images of the disc and mentions of Gair have been posted earlier here.

    The POW list shows Pvte Gair was captured and not simply listed as MIA. I'm speculating, but either he was in the last rearguard and didn't get away, or, because of the location of the lost tag near the beach field hospital, he may have been one of the wounded troops who had to be left behind due to more serious injuries.
     

    Attached Files:

    dbf likes this.
  17. tommy40

    tommy40 Member

    Garry I send again G.GAIR's tag, it was lost by himself on beach as I said.
    He may have been injured as Drew said at Maritime Hospital where a lot of wounded soldiers, french , british... were waiting care and their evacuation.
    G.GAIR may have been taken prisonnier there ??
    The Maritime Hospital is visible at front from beaches and I will send photos of the place where G.GAIR's tag was found in the 90's.

    The search and the work you make is interesting, thanks again Garry !!! An archeologist's work...
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Roxy

    Roxy Senior Member

    Garry,

    Is there a p2 to the Nominal Roll of Prisoners of War? The page posted appears to give only names A to K; I suspect that the L to Zs were not that lucky!

    Roxy
     
  19. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    CONFIRMATION RE G. GAIR
    Yes, the ID tag number and details definitely match the same 2926874 G.Gair listed on the official list of POW's. And since you found the tag in the dunes in the close proximity of the Maritime Hospital, then it is absolutely more than likely he was wounded and had to be left behind. The bulk of the Camerons re-embarked from the East Mole on the night of 29th/30th May, meaning Gair had to have been still on the Bray Dunes beaches when the Germans arrived several days later. Either he was wounded earlier and sent to the filed hospital or perhaps he was wounded later while part of the small Cameron detachment left in the final inner defence.
     
    Linda Oates likes this.
  20. cameronlad

    cameronlad Member

    Garry,

    Is there a p2 to the Nominal Roll of Prisoners of War? The page posted appears to give only names A to K; I suspect that the L to Zs were not that lucky!

    Roxy

    I posted the full three pages of the QOCH POW list in another thread (Prisoners of War) but so that you can save time, I'll put them up here as well - coming up next post in...

    By the way I've just opened the sealed (uncut pages) of the QOCH Official History Vol 1 printed in 1952 containing the lists for the 1st Battalion in Burma, including casualties, etc. This part of the book I've got has never been opened or read before. It's like opening the mummy's tomb for the first time. I'll scan them all up and post here in the next three days.
     

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