Grandfather: 2659490 Charles GILES, 3 Coldstream Guards

Discussion in 'The Brigade of Guards' started by Andrew Giles, Mar 29, 2023.

  1. Andrew Giles

    Andrew Giles Member

    Does anyone know where the The 3rd Battalion Coldstream Guards were in August 1943. My Grandfather was posted to the Battalion on 13th August 43.
     
  2. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Welcome to the forum.

    Relevant page from official Regimental History attached.

    Battalion set sail for Salerno from Tripoli 5th Sept 1943.

    Steve
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Andrew Giles

    Andrew Giles Member

    Many thanks Steve, finally got Grandfather's War records after 2 years of waiting. He
    was also in Coat's Mission.
     
  4. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    My late father served 3rd CG 1937/41 until he was taken POW in Libya late Dec 1941.

    Here is a link to a downloadable copy of the official Regimental History 1920/46.

    The Coldstream Guards, 1920-1946, by Michael Howard and John Sparrow.

    If you are struggling with anything in his records just post a copy and members ought to be able to decipher and explain them for you.

    Steve
     
  5. Andrew Giles

    Andrew Giles Member

    Steve,
    Extract from service record after Coats Mission attached, Trying to understand the various postings and it appears he went to a casualty clearing station on 29th August 43 and I have assumed that it says GenHosp? (also perhaps AdmHosp 5.10.44) Also seemed to move between 3rd and 1st BN and on 27th Oct 44 says Transferred to 7 something but can't decipher. Dad believes he ended up in Austria at the end of the War.
    If anyone can help with deciphering it would be much appreciated.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    My reading of the B103 is -

    1.7.43 Posted Holding Battalion at Regents Park pending movement overseas.

    16.7.43 Embarked U.K. - may not be the actual day of sailing - probably from Gourock or Liverpool. A fast convoy through the Mediterranean to the North Africa coast rather than the pre Operation Torch 2 or 3 month convoy route to Egypt via South Africa.

    28.7.43 Arrival in North Africa - likely a port in Algeria (BNAF) or even as far east as Alexandria as he was posted MEF at that stage. Posted to 1st Battalion Infantry Reinforcement & Training Depot - likely near the port of arrival. 1st Battalion IRTD would likely be made up of separate companies for Brigade of Guards Regiments - “Battalion” likely several thousand strong.

    It’s role was to hold and train reinforcements - new arrivals from U.K. and recovered sick & wounded - to be sent to the Battalion of the parent regiment in theatre as required.He was identified as a reinforcement for 3rd CG then serving in MEF rather than 2nd CG in BNAF. 1 IRTD had been at Geneifa, Egypt 1940/43 in MEF but I’m not aware of its location after the war in North Africa ceased or if it moved further westwards. His medical evacuation in August 1943 suggests it may have still been in Egypt.

    8.8.43 - Posted to 3 CG from IRTD arriving with the Battalion at Tripoli, Libya 13.8.43.

    29.8.43 - He only served with 3rd CG for a fortnight before being admitted to hospital - either sick or injured. Training Accident or a Tropical Disease will be confirmed in the medical documents in his file which MOD do not release.

    The details of the medical units he apparently passed through in a single day seem confusing. The B103 was updated on receipt of more detailed original medical documents and dates in the B103 are often recorded inaccurately and need to be compared with the original medical documents for accuracy.

    I’m not aware of the location of 8 South African Casualty Clearing Station - likely the first medical unit he passed through.

    Scarlet Finders website gives location of 1 British General Hospital at Kantara, Egypt 1941/46.

    I interpret the entry 16 (C) Gen Hospital to refer to 16 British General Hospital and the “C” to refer to “Convalescent”. Scarlet Finders puts 16 BGH at Jerusalem 1942/46.

    16.11.43 - He appears to have recovered from his injury/sickness and is posted to the strength of Central Mediterranean Force from MEF but does not appear to have rejoined 3 CG in Italy at that time and appears to have stayed on the X list - although I’m not familiar with X NA acronym.

    22.3.44 - He is posted to 3rd Battalion 1 IRTD in CMF. No 1 IRTD was located at Cervinara - inland from Naples. From the length of time he was at 1 IRTD during 1944/45 I’d suggest he was on the permanent staff. I’ve seen records for Scots Guards personnel posted to IRTD as they were not A1 physically so not fit for front line service.

    He had another period in hospital in October 1944 - but the Hospital number is not recorded on the B103 - prior to attending 7 Convalescent Depot in Italy - location not known.

    29.11.45 - Posted Cat Pool I interpret as a posting to a unit of lower medical category men.

    If he served in Austria post war he would not be with a CG Battalion. 3rd CG returned to England February 1945. 2nd CG were in Trieste, Italy post war.

    His service with 3rd CG is limited to the fortnight in August 1943 when they were training for the Salerno invasion at Tripoli, Libya.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023
  7. Andrew Giles

    Andrew Giles Member

    Excellent thanks Steve,
    Another question, in addition to 4 medals (2 Stars and 2 service medals) it also says he got 8 clasps. Any background on clasps?
     
  8. Andrew Giles

    Andrew Giles Member

    Anyone have any background to the London District School of Tactics. Grandfather was there on a number of occasions
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023
  9. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Andrew,

    Without seeing the document you quote I’m sceptical at him receiving/ being entitled to 8 clasps.

    I’d guess he would be entitled to 39/45 and Italy Stars plus Defence and War Medals. No entitlement to clasps - denoting service in other theatres of war - from the B103 extract you’ve posted.

    Feel free to attach the queried document.

    Steve
     
    Wobbler likes this.
  10. Andrew Giles

    Andrew Giles Member

    Probably me not understanding the information on the stamp shown on the attached. The 8 may indicate something else including the year 48.
    IMG_20230330_143204.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Andrew,

    I agree it’s likely reinforcing the year of issue.

    If it’s not too personal a question could I ask if you have any knowledge of the illness/injury he sustained whilst at Tripoli in August 1943?

    I suspect you likely got less than 10 army forms from MOD but it is just the tip of the actual file contents. Scots Guards sold their service files to findmypast and files I’ve looked at on their site contain 100+ pages. They include medical and discipline forms.

    Steve

    PS

    Forum member dbf would be interested to have sight of your grandfathers name and army service number to add to the lists of Brigade of Guards personnel that she maintains on the forum.
     
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  12. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD


    I admit I have been wondering if it were possible to add your grandfather's name & number to these Rolls, never mind the thread title! Realise however that some people prefer to keep details private...
     
    Wobbler likes this.
  13. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Just looked at the Nominal Roll for the first time in a long while Diane.

    I see you have obtained details showing Coldstream Guards Association membership in 1948 - when it was Old Coldstreamers Association.

    I can see my father listed in the Newcastle Branch. I have his membership card.

    Steve
     
    dbf likes this.
  14. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Aye Steve, good to hear. Nigel sent me a list he'd typed up himself from that membership list which he said showed up quite a few 'duplicate' numbers - typos he supposed. I'm still working on adding all the names he's provided to both the main Rolls. Requires more concentration than the odd half hour now and then.
     
  15. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    This could be the clerks shorthand for an entitlement to the 8th Army clasp to his Africa Star.

    Travers
     
    Andrew Giles likes this.
  16. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Only problem is that he didn’t qualify for the Africa Star as he arrived too late…….:whistle:
     
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  17. Andrew Giles

    Andrew Giles Member

    Yes we had originally wondered why he didn't get Africa Star but I had concluded he didn't see any action N.Africa just there as staging post for Italy.

    Will ask my father if he recalls any illness/injury. Dad did mention he might have broken his arm at some point. Will contact dbf
     
  18. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    Ok back to the drawing board then as too late to qualify for the Africa Star & there were no clasps issued for the Italy Star.
     
    Wobbler likes this.
  19. Andrew Giles

    Andrew Giles Member

    We think he was in Egypt so your suggestion on Alexandria may be correct.
     
    Tullybrone likes this.
  20. Wobbler

    Wobbler Well-Known Member

    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023

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