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Old German tanks in Bulgaria (And Emplaced Tanks/Turrets in general)

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#1 von Poop

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 12:37 PM

Edit by Owen D. Been asked to move this discussion on ex-German armour in Bulgaria to it's own thread.



On Bulgaria Dani, (and I can't see you have anything to apologise for,) did you know that there are still Sturmgeschutz assault guns emplaced as static fortifications around your borders? The Stugs, I believe known as SO-75 in Bulgarian terminology(?), are dug in, semi submerged and abandoned. Seen photos but still looking for information on locations.
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#2 BulgarianSoldier

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 12:30 PM

On Bulgaria Dani, (and I can't see you have anything to apologise for,) did you know that there are still Sturmgeschutz assault guns emplaced as static fortifications around your borders? The Stugs, I believe known as SO-75 in Bulgarian terminology(?), are dug in, semi submerged and abandoned. Seen photos but still looking for information on locations.

Thats because the govermant doesn't give money.We dont have SO-75 i dont know where do you have this unreal and silly information.
And Sturmgeschutz ? Where, where did you read this extreamly funny information ? Even 3 World coutrys doesn't use Sturmgeschutz i cant guess of a coutry that use them.We use T-72 (there are just few of them left) the most common tank here is T-80 as much as i know.We use BMP-23 for transporting units.
Here is a video for the Bulgarian made weapons YouTube - Bulgarian Army Weapons made in Bulgaria
You could easy regonaise some of them in the hands of many iraqis.
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#3 Owen

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 12:41 PM

Click here Bulgaria


The Ausf G was the last production series of the StuG. Comming off the assembly-line in December 1942. The Ausf G was produced until the end of the war with no major changes made to the design. The stug III was called SO-75 by the Bulgarians. The initials "SO" stood for Samochodno Oryzie. 25 units were obtained, though in the book "Equipment and armor in the Bulgarian Army-Armored Vehicles 1935-45" by Kaloyan Matev, he says the number was 55.


Dani,
You had them in WW2, as Adam says, they are still there. Abandoned.

Our letter is about the restoration for museum exhibition of a middle tank Panzer IV, an assault gun Sturmgeschutz III and if possible an assault gun Sturmgeschutz IV.

In the border areas of Bulgaria near to the Turkish border in the defense facilities built during the time of the Cold war are situated some of the mentioned weapons which are not longer needed

Decembre 44=


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#4 BulgarianSoldier

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 12:52 PM

Click here Bulgaria


Dani,
You had them in WW2, as Adam says, they are still there. Abandoned.


Decembre 44=


I though he said that we still use them.
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#5 Owen

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 12:55 PM

"The buried tanks... are treated as armament and equipment of the Bulgarian Army" and were "maintained by military experts," Plamen Kolev, head of the Administrative and Information Services Department of the Ministry of Defence, told us in a letter. There were "plans providing for their seasonal technical servicing," Mr Kolev said. The machines had to be "permanently in the open air," which explained why they were outside the tank hangars. The fact that they lacked permanent supervision posed no threat to the population whatsoever, because their special combat equipment was dismantled and kept under the "necessary conditions".
The tanks, we were told, had a "mobilization function in view of current defence objectives". In accordance with the Plan for Organisational Development and Modernisation of the Armed Forces until 2015, they will be decommissioned by 1 July 2013.


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#6 von Poop

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 01:43 PM

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Panzer III?

On the initial theme of the thread, What exactly did I do to offend you so Dani? Other than make an aside on a fascinating and little known ww2 survival in your country? One which I thought you might be interested in.

WW2 vehicles have been used as dug-in static defences across the world, many still are, a 75mm gun is a 75mm gun regardless of age and mentioning one doesn't imply the national slur you immediately assumed.
Drop the paranoia Dani, I'm often on your side.

Thought perhaps you could be in a position to get some more photos than the scant amount to be found on the web. And maybe have a rare clamber about inside them.
Cheers,
Adam.
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#7 BulgarianSoldier

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 03:41 PM

I never know about those things.I have seen a lot of medievil small castles near the borders but tanks,guns..
As im reading all this i was thinking that "we were puting tanks and forces on the border for an ivasion?" Who knows what the comunists were going to do.Dont forget that Turkey has NATO Rocket systems during comunism.
Thanks for those materials, i will write an email to the director of the National Musleum of Sofia.
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#8 von Poop

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 03:44 PM

They really sound like unique survivors, I don't think they're even mentioned in the recent 'Tank turret fortifications' book. I'll check.
As they're technically in service until 2015 they must rate as the longest serving example of German gear in the world?
The secretive power of the Soviets eh?
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#9 von Poop

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 08:57 PM

Checked the book and all Mr Short has is on t34's:

At its peak the Bulgarian army fielded nearly 600 of these tanks and as late as 1988 it still had 200 in service. Unconfirmed sources state that a number of the scrapped turrets were installed along the border with Turkey

Considering the book is 2006 and seems generally to be rather comprehensive then these stugs and Panzers appear to be real news.
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#10 Owen

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 11:24 PM

Achtung Panzer! - Bulgarian Panthers!


Panthers were then burried along the Bulgarian-Turkish border as pillboxes, while their Maybach engines were removed


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#11 Herroberst

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:06 AM

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Panzer III?

On the initial theme of the thread, What exactly did I do to offend you so Dani? Other than make an aside on a fascinating and little known ww2 survival in your country? One which I thought you might be interested in.

WW2 vehicles have been used as dug-in static defences across the world, many still are, a 75mm gun is a 75mm gun regardless of age and mentioning one doesn't imply the national slur you immediately assumed.
Drop the paranoia Dani, I'm often on your side.

Thought perhaps you could be in a position to get some more photos than the scant amount to be found on the web. And maybe have a rare clamber about inside them.
Cheers,
Adam.


Looks like a Pnz IV early model D, most commonly seen during the invasion of France. The Norwegians, Croatians and Russians have huge stocks of Wehrmacht weapons. While we destroyed many left from Afrika, Italy and the Western Front, the Russians stockpiled the ones they captured. It is not surprising to see them. Ah to be able to roam freely about Zaphod Werke. In recent history, much of the German Weapons were used in the Bosnian/Serbian conflicts during the break up of Yugoslavia, some of them taken from museums.
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#12 Owen

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 07:52 AM

Pete, definately not a Pz IV D, for the simple reason it has a long 75, that is pointing away from the camera.
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#13 Gerard

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 09:45 AM

Looks more like an F or a G model!! Great thread lads!
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#14 von Poop

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 11:50 AM

:lol: One thing it Isn't is a III, really must give up the glue-sniffing on Wednesdays... looked so stumpy but there's a whole lot of tank buried there. makes me realise just how small the upper box superstructure on 4's is..
(ausf. G fits and seems to be the only mark Bulgaria was officially supplied with)

Not seen a shot of a panther buried there yet, maybe they're still in service and an even better kept secret? Oooh I hope so... that'd get the collectors swarming.
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#15 BulgarianSoldier

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 06:54 PM

People dont unrestamate the power of the bulgarian technics, i cant regonise the model too but it may be made or modificate by the bulgarians.:)
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#16 Owen

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 10:34 PM

Dani,
A mission for you one weekend, get a digital camera, get your car and go and find these tanks for us.
We'll send you some petrol money. ;)
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#17 Manta-Schuppen

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 12:12 AM

In Bulgaria is located still much more these pictures before some to
meet found. that is really unfortunate
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

These stand in Sofia/Bulgarien. A large part of the tanks serve the Bulgarian homeless people as sleep place and as fire place !!

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#18 Andy in West Oz

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 12:32 AM

I never ceased to be amazed when I come here! Can't believe there's a book on tank fortifications! How cool is that?!

Oh and the pics in the post above....sensational!
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#19 Owen

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 09:14 AM

Some more over-grown photos from sofia here.
Achtung Panzer! - The "Skoda" tank in the Bulgarian Army

<CENTER></CENTER><CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER></CENTER>
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#20 von Poop

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 09:19 AM

Fantastic stuff Manta-Schuppen! (and welcome aboard)
Particularly what looks like a Pz.IV/70(V) (bottom left), can't be many survivors of that??
Haven't seen scrapyard-ish shots like that for years.
That's one museum I'm sure the Wheatcrofts of this world would love to rescue some stuff from.
Cheers (big style),
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#21 Gerard

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 09:20 AM

My word, Those pictures are fantastic indeed! You'd have military collectors salivating over these!! Or Museum Curators.
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#22 Owen

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 09:20 AM

Going back to the Bulgarian Pz IV G,
here is a photo of one. Was the bolt on front armour a Bulgarian idea?
Not seen it before , Bulgaria
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#23 Owen

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 09:22 AM

Even more photos from Sofia here.
Achtung Panzer! - Military-Historical Museum in Sofia, Bulgaria.



and here NATIONAL MUSEUM OF MILITARY HISTORY
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#24 von Poop

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 09:25 AM

Armour looks pretty standard mate (I think... I'd have to double check the Panzer Tract on it to be sure but It looks normal to me.) my ausf-spotting skills are seriously rusty.
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#25 Gerard

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 09:28 AM

Owen re your picture above and just looking at the uniforms, especially the tanker. Are they not Germans?? I know that the numbers on the Front of the tank may indicate otherwise but that guy in the turret looks like a member of the Panzertruppe.
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#26 Owen

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 09:32 AM

Gerard, I'm going by what the site says.
Bulgaria

They must be wrong as they say Bulgaria had Ausf G then the caption which only appears when cursor is on the photo says it's Ausf H.
Confused, me? Yes.
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#27 Gerard

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 09:33 AM

Sorry bout that m8. Wasnt trying to have a go!! It is verrry confusing.
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#28 Owen

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 09:40 AM

No worries Gerard,
Have a look here http://www.geocities...x/4555/ww2.html
Bulgarian WW2 uniforms lok very "germanic".

Found another site on Bulgarian tanks here.
WW2 bulg.tanks
Have a look around some good, if small, photos in there.
This site says they had Ausf H.
As to the Panthers it says


Some info say today some of the Bulgarian Panthers are stil on the Turkish border as pillboxes,other say they was scraped in 1950s-who knows.





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#29 von Poop

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 09:56 AM

That's a great little site in the making!
Bulgarian millitary history
Some unusual pictures on there.

(should we try and dispense with the ausf-spotting unless it's really relevant? or is it good practice? I'm getting tired with all the running upstairs to double-check things. ;)
It'll be sodding RAL numbers next....:wacko: )
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#30 Owen

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 10:04 AM

That's be the main site that I linked to in post #28.
I quite like the idea of constantly making you run up and down stairs. bet that is the most excercise you've had for ages.
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