Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Railway Artillery Howitzer


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 CommanderChuff

CommanderChuff

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 136 posts
  • LocationWarwick

Posted 28 December 2011 - 03:45 PM

This model of the Mark 1 gun on a Mark 1 railway trolley is the result of many lonely week night hours in various hotels across merry England.

The gun is a 12 inch howitzer built by Armstrongs of Elswick, Newcastle, and the trolley wagon was built by Birmingham Carriage and Wagon Works. After the army had been taken off the Dunkirk beaches most of the heavy equipment and weapons had been left behind. These guns were primarily intended for mobile coastal defence and followed the practice of armoured trains.

The model is constructed entirely from plastic sheet, with the usual steel wheels and some other small bits in brass. The rivet heads have been cut off from cast components supplied by Calibre 35 and supper glued to the platework. The rough estimate of rivets is about 4,000. The gun is designed is to be lowered onto the track when preparing for action. This is done by having the bogies attached to large box sections at each end of the trolley. These are raised and lowered by large screw threads and I have managed to make the model operate in exactly the same way.

The gun was accompanied by a warflat which carried the outriggers and other large lumps of equipment, these were lifted off by a small hand crane. The outriggers and spades in the model can be slotted into the holders on the trolley for traveling.

The gun barrel is plastic tube and in the absence of a lathe I am planning to create the waisted shape by using the same technique as the original gun makers. The barrel will be impaled onto a length of rod which will be mounted into roller bearings from a radio controlled car. A small electric drill will rotate the barrel and I can shape the barrel.

The other main items to complete are wheel axle boxes, and lots of rivets.

Attached Files


  • 2

#2 Paul Reed

Paul Reed

    Ubique

  • Super Moderators
  • 6,577 posts
  • LocationUK/France

Posted 28 December 2011 - 03:46 PM

Very nice indeed!
  • 0





 

"The only way you get out of infantry is on a stretcher or six feet under..."

Battlefields of WW2
: The Guide to visiting WW2 Battlefields.

www.ww2battlefields.com


#3 Neilie

Neilie

    Member

  • Registered Users
  • 146 posts

Posted 28 December 2011 - 04:25 PM

Spectacular scratch-building! Well done. What scale is it?

Cheers,

Neil
  • 0

#4 Za Rodinu

Za Rodinu

    Supository of all wisdom

  • Registered Users
  • 6,556 posts
  • LocationIn a hole, and digging :D

Posted 28 December 2011 - 06:44 PM

I see in the fourth pic there is a guy preparing to spread a few spadefuls of coal to hide all that pristine white, lest the Huns send some Gothas to smash all your rivets!

Fine work!, keep us posted :)
  • 0

Quote from US Army field sanitation manual, 1850: "Dig the latrines downstream from the camp. The coffee tastes better."


#5 CommanderChuff

CommanderChuff

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 136 posts
  • LocationWarwick

Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:17 PM

Thanks for the kind comments, the scale is 1:43 or 7mm to the foot, and the train will run on my O gauge track layout with the Overlord Military train which can be found in the link below,

Hopefully the rail arty will be completed and painted for the summer running season,



http://www.ww2talk.c...html#post228034
  • 0

#6 CL1

CL1

    .

  • Registered Users
  • 14,042 posts

Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:51 PM

Excellent work thank you for posting and please keep us all up to date with your projects.
  • 0

#7 horsapilot

horsapilot

    Member

  • Registered Users
  • PipPipPip
  • 53 posts

Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:35 PM

Waw, an expert scratch builder you are !
  • 0

#8 The Q

The Q

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • PipPip
  • 17 posts

Posted 30 December 2011 - 08:24 PM

I wish My models would come out like that ...
Are you working from drawings or Photos?
and what year was the gun / wagon assembly built?
since my layout will be May 1940 too late for me.. though I might streach it a bit for something interesting..
The Q
  • 0

#9 CommanderChuff

CommanderChuff

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 136 posts
  • LocationWarwick

Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:13 PM

I wish My models would come out like that ...
Are you working from drawings or Photos?
and what year was the gun / wagon assembly built?
since my layout will be May 1940 too late for me.. though I might streach it a bit for something interesting..
The Q


Hallo Q, thanks for the kind comments, the model is being built using several photos and some basic line drawings, there are many sources of info, it is just a matter of collecting every scrap of information to build up a library of reference data.

The first big (9.2 inch, 14inch and 16 inch) railway guns were built in 1916-1918 and used in France. The 9.2 in bogie trolleys were re-gunned with 12 inch howitzers in 1939 and used until 1943, some for Home Defence. The platforms for the larger calibre guns were re-gunned with 16 and 18 inch and used until 1944. These were being prepared for possible support of the Normandy landings but in the event were not used.
  • 0

#10 CommanderChuff

CommanderChuff

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 136 posts
  • LocationWarwick

Posted 28 January 2012 - 04:40 PM

The latest installment of the railway arty train is a spade wagon. The spades were the large lumps of metal which were dug into the earth on each side of the gun trolley to anchor the mounting should the gun be firing to the side. The spades were attached to the gun trolley by large arms. The spades, arms, and other bits were stored on the wagon and unloaded with a hand crank jib crane. These were built by Butters Bros of Glasgow and could lift 2.5 tons. As the rail arty train came into position the troops would off load the gun stores and spades where the gun would be positioned and then the gun itself would take its place.

Unfortunately I have just found the train consists on this site posted by Trux and Van Poop, and now realise that far from finishing the train, there are many more vans to build.

The SHB with the 14 or 18inch guns had shell and cartridge vans in the train. I know that the shell vans were purpose built armoured vans with 6 wheel bogies. It seems from the listings that the 9.2 in and 12 inch gun trains did not have ammo vans, but did have cartridge vans. And there were 2 spade wagons per gun. I am assuming that the cartridge vans were ordinary closed box WD vans, and that the shells were carried in trays on one of the spade wagons. The spade wagons had a stack of three large trays at each end, each had 6 12in shells, giving 36 shells for each wagon, and 72 shells for each gun.

The listings also include x2 French flats. I am assuming that these are ordinary flat wagons, presumably from France, which were used for vehicles and large stores.

If anybody could comment on my assumptions, I would grateful.

[FONT="]
Railway Arty 18 inch Howitzer[/FONT]
[FONT="]Transport
5 X motorcycle
1 X car 5cwt 4 X 4
1 X 15cwt GS fitted with hand cable layer
1 X 15cwt FFW
1 X 3ton 4 X 4 GS
1 X 10cwt trailer
1 X water trailer

3 X locomotive diesel electric
1 X mountings, 18” howitzer
1 X shell truck, 18” howitzer
2 X cartridge van
1 X command post van (carries wireless sets)
2 X gun stores van
1 X artificers shop and gun stores van
1 X signals stores van
2 X quartermaster stores van
1 X kitchen van
11 X sleeping van
1 X serjeants mess van
1 X officers mess coach
2 X French flats
2 X brake vans (also for transportation stores)

[/FONT][FONT="]
Railway Arty 12 inch Howitzer
Transport
5 X motorcycle
1 X car 5cwt 4 X 4
1 X 15cwt GS fitted with hand cable layer
1 X 15cwt FFW
1 X 3ton 4 X 4 GS
1 X 10cwt trailer
1 X water trailer

2 X locomotive steam
2 X mountings, 12” howitzer
4 X spade wagon (fitted with 2 ½ ton derrick)
2 X cartridge van
1 X command post van (carries wireless sets)
2 X gun stores van
1 X artificers shop and signal stores van
2 X quartermaster stores van
1 X kitchen van
12 X sleeping van
1 X serjeants mess van
1 X officers mess coach
2 X French flats
2 X brake vans (also for transportation stores)

[/FONT]

Attached Files


Edited by CommanderChuff, 31 January 2012 - 01:38 PM.

  • 0

#11 Trux

Trux

    21 AG

  • Registered Users
  • 1,247 posts

Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:32 AM

Commander Chuff,

I am sorry to have caused you more work. Or should that be 'I am pleased to have provided you with years more happy modelling'.

I have often admired the detailed work on your models. I am afraid I have no details of wagons etc. The War Establishments on the Trux section were hoovered up by a researcher looking for 21 Army Group units.

I do have a small collection of ten WWII WD locomotives but no rolling stock except for a Warflat, a Warwell and an ambulance carriage. Can you recommend a good source of information on WD rolling stock?

Mike
  • 0

#12 CommanderChuff

CommanderChuff

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 136 posts
  • LocationWarwick

Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:36 PM

I do have a small collection of ten WWII WD locomotives but no rolling stock except for a Warflat, a Warwell and an ambulance carriage. Can you recommend a good source of information on WD rolling stock?

Mike


Hey Mike,

I am grateful for the information on how the railway guns were used in operations, and am pleased that you have taken the trouble to post the data. I think that while models can give some of the history, the context of how these were used is also very interesting.

For the railway rolling stock suppliers, Graham of Gramodels is producing a range on 4mm and 7mm, and has a warflat in production, Adrian from ABS/43toOne models has a range of cars and wagons, Holiday Hobbies has a brass rectank kit.

As you know I have scratch build most of mine because of the lack of ready to build kits, and this method not only gives me a lot of satisfaction, but also transforms the data which contributors like yourself into models that we can all appreciate. Please let me know how I can help with your military train.

BTW: I have just found out that French flats was a reference to the warflats produced for France but were not sent before that country fell. The remainder of the gun train is made up of ferry box vans and ferry luggage vans which were built between 1928 and 1936 for the cross channel train ferry service from London to Paris.

David
  • 0

#13 Trux

Trux

    21 AG

  • Registered Users
  • 1,247 posts

Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:30 PM

David,

Thank you for your kind words and for your information. I know Graham of Gramodels and hove just looked at his website. Very promising. I remember he started by making 1:150 scale vehicles to go with his N scale railway.

I look forward to seeing your complete railway gun set. In some years time I imagine.

Mike

PS. The Beverley Museum of Army Transport used to have a lot of information on Army Railways, and some resident experts. Does any one know where the information is now?

Edited by Trux, 31 January 2012 - 04:35 PM.

  • 0

#14 Dave55

Dave55

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,401 posts
  • LocationAtlanta, Georgia. USA

Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:39 PM

Great work!
  • 0
"Are you guys ready? Let's roll!" Todd Beamer, Sept 11, 2001

#15 CommanderChuff

CommanderChuff

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 136 posts
  • LocationWarwick

Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:22 PM

Update to Railway Arty wagon.

Some more work done on the gun and the spade wagon is looking the part with a lick of paint. Just need to finish off the rivets and complete the painting on both wagons,

Attached Files


  • 0

#16 CommanderChuff

CommanderChuff

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 136 posts
  • LocationWarwick

Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:10 AM

The spade wagon is now completed. The wagon has got all of the items on it which were needed to support the emplacement of the gun unit in preparation for action. The trays on the deck are carrying shells. The large hand crane was used to load and unload the heavy items and the shells whilst the smaller jib was a demountable crane for hoisting the shells onto the gun shell tray.

The gun is now in the final act of riveting and detailing so am hoping to have both ready for Guild O Gauge model competition in early September.

David

Attached Files


  • 0

#17 snafu_72

snafu_72

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • Pip
  • 5 posts

Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:07 PM

Well done! What are you using for motive power to haul this mighty beast?
  • 0

#18 51highland

51highland

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,337 posts

Posted 31 July 2012 - 10:38 AM

This old thead might be of interest to you; http://www.ww2talk.c..."-howitzer.html
  • 0
51 highland "Don't leave me Sarge" & Keep 'em Moving

Là á Bhlàir's math na Càirdean

(Friends are good in the day of battle)


Na diobair caraid's a charraid
(Forsake not a friend in the fray)

Cuimhnichibh na suinn nach maireann .
Mairidh an cliu beo gu brath.
(In memory of the Heroes who are no more.
May their Fame live on forever)

#19 CommanderChuff

CommanderChuff

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 136 posts
  • LocationWarwick

Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:40 AM

Hallo Snafu,

The gun unit is quite modest in size and weight, just 60 tons and 30 or 40 feet, but as one of my earlier posts have shown there are several trains needed for the support staff and equipment. These trains, and the gun train, were normally hauled by basic 0-6-0 tender locomotives of the GWR Dean Goods type, or small diesels when in action mode.

The 14 and 18 inch guns were much larger units weighing 250 tons on a 90 foot carriage. These had much large 2-8-0 or 2-10-0 locos for motive power.

For my model I try to replicate the historical facts as closely as possible so have a stable of suitable locomotives for each train. My model of a WD Austerity 2-8-0 is shown in the Overlord military train model, and the 2-10-0 version is a kit in my workshop ready to be built. The smaller locos are a Southern Railway 0-6-0 C class goods, 0-6-0 S100 USA Dock Tank and some other kits to be built.

I really to like the look of the S160 USA 2-8-0 loco and may have to scratch build one of those soon to complete my set of military railway stock.

David
  • 0

#20 CommanderChuff

CommanderChuff

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 136 posts
  • LocationWarwick

Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:42 AM

Dear 51 Highland,

Thanks for the link to the guns but I have to confess that upon one of my earliest visits to this lovely and interesting forum I was able to glean some useful information from those posts,

David.
  • 0

#21 CommanderChuff

CommanderChuff

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 136 posts
  • LocationWarwick

Posted 28 October 2012 - 04:46 PM

Hallo again,

The railway gun is completed. After a bit of rush to get those final details on it the gun and spade wagon were entered into the annual modeling competition in the O gauge Guild show at Telford in September. The quality of models is always high and such it was on this occasion with a great big yellow railway crane taking the honours of the first prize and glass trophy. My little tiddler came a close second and I took home the silver. But never the mind, the thing is done, and it does look good on my layout, so here are some photos of the gun and wagon.

Far from being disappointed with the competition thoughts have now turned to a 18 inch howitzer model, a real monster, and I have got the project file out and looked at the drawings. Fortunately I have a mass of info from the IWM, footage of a large scale model in Duxford and drawings from Firepower.

I hope the attention to detail has pleased the experts, the many rivets and brass fittings, the copper driving bands on the shells and the general colour scheme.

Thanks for all of your support and helpful advice, and here is looking forward to the next model, all the best in whatever you are doing, and Marry Christmas,

David.

Attached Files


  • 1

#22 Swiper

Swiper

    Resident Sospan

  • Registered Users
  • 814 posts

Posted 28 October 2012 - 07:02 PM

Exceptionally wonderful bit of modelling. Any more shots of it with a nice loco?
  • 0
www.53rdwelshdiv.webs.com - For all you're 53rd Welsh Divisions needs... (Still Under Construction)
Never forget to keep the Sospan from the King...

#23 Neilie

Neilie

    Member

  • Registered Users
  • 146 posts

Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:14 PM

Masterful work!

Cheers,

Neil
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users