Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

WW2 Australian casualties - RAAF / RAF etc etc


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 DaveB

DaveB

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 2,138 posts

Posted 14 August 2011 - 04:07 AM

Just created this thread to make some random posts concerning some casualties that need further comment or assistance from all out there.

As mentioned in another thread by Spidge, besides CWGC records here in Australia we have some great resources provided by the Australian War Memorial (AWM). For those who died while serving in an Australian uniform there is a Roll of Honour (ROH) and for those Aussies who were wearing a British (or Canadian, or NZ, or US or whatever) uniform there is the Commemorative Roll (CRoll). This also includes those Australians who died while working for organizations like the Red Cross & Salvation Army alongside military units.

We also have access to a lot of official records via the National Archives of Australia (NAA). Plus a nominal roll is maintained by the Department of Veterans Affairs (DVA) showing details of all who served in Australian forces in WW2.

All of these organizations are very approachable and helpful (wait time is variable depending on what you are asking for). There are a couple of idiosyncrasies; for example the unit (at time of death or discharge) shown on the DVA nominal roll is pretty well set in concrete. When it was created they used information as provided by the Defence Department and as such they don’t want to keep amending it. I have had data in just about every other field modified from evidence I have supplied, but they won’t budge on the unit detail.

The online ROH is very tightly controlled as it is a virtual representation of information that appears on the actual wall of honour found at the AWM. They are willing to change information following solid evidence (and their own research) but there is often a delay as they have to get around to taking panels down and getting them corrected or re-cast.

The CRoll is another story as it was created following an Australia-wide appeal in the 1980s and some of the info is dubious. Some of the connections to Australia are very tenuous, however, the rule is that once on the roll names won’t be removed. I have at least one bloke on there that survived the war and was still running his company into the 1980s.

Conversely, if the AWM are approached regarding a new inclusion to the CRoll it takes a heck of a lot of information to sway them to add a name.

The NAA will tidy up file header detail on their website for records they hold, as long it is an obvious typo or where the header contradicts information found on the actual file. I have had a couple of wins adding comments to a file description where information needed to make sense of the contents was not otherwise found on the file.

As much as is humanly possible I have been trying to make sure that all of the casualty records match up for RAAF personnel.

********************************************

First off is a couple of bits of info for AC1 Tonkin RAAF 20540 who was recently notified as being added to the CWGC.

I obtained some newspaper extracts from the time that described the circumstances of his death and his final resting place.

An oddity was that he was buried in Sydney but was on the posted strength of a Melbourne training unit (explained in the article).

Attached Files


Edited by DaveB, 14 August 2011 - 12:27 PM.

  • 0

#2 DaveB

DaveB

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 2,138 posts

Posted 14 August 2011 - 04:24 AM

I have just been informed that the following two casualties from September 1939 have been accepted by the CWGC / OAWG. They should hopefully be accepted by the AWM ROH soon. Their nominal roll records had a couple of corruptions too, but they were quickly corrected.

Musgrave, John RAAF 2910 & LINKLATER, Ivan Munroe RAAF 1830


From: Natalie [@dva.gov.au]
Sent: Friday, 12 August 2011 10:11
To: Barlow, David
Subject: Linklater, Musgrave - Update

Good morning

Thank you for the information regarding the burial locations for Linklater and Musgrave.

As a result of the information you provided us, OAWG has confirmed that Musgrave is located at:

Rookwood Necropolis, NSW
Roman Catholic section: 16 Grave: 411

Linklater was cremated at Fawkner Cemetery VIC; however, his remains were removed shortly after his death.

As a result, OAWG will commemorate Linklater by placing a plaque in a Garden of Remembrance .

CWGC will be notified shortly so that these new details can be added to the Debt of Honour database.

I trust this information is pleasing to you.

Regards

Natalie



From: Natalie [@dva.gov.au]
Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2011 14:46
To: Barlow, David
Subject: Linklater, Musgrave - Accepted as War Dead

Good afternoon

Please find attached documentation confirming Sergeant Ivan Munroe Linklater’s acceptance as Australian War Dead by the Director, Office of Australian War Graves (OAWG).

I can also confirm that John Musgrave has previously been accepted by the Director, OAWG, as Australian War Dead. His name however remains omitted from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) Debt of Honour database due to insufficient burial details.

Should you have information regarding John Musgrave’s burial location or details, please forward these to OAWG to assist us with the addition of John Musgrave to the CWGC Debt of Honour database.

I trust this information has been of assistance.

Regards

Natalie
Department of Veterans' Affairs
Office of Australian War Graves

Attached Files


Edited by DaveB, 14 August 2011 - 04:57 AM.

  • 0

#3 DaveB

DaveB

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 2,138 posts

Posted 14 August 2011 - 04:55 AM

Next up are some possible Commemorative Roll (CRoll) anomalies. Spidge has brought up on other threads the matter of the Miller brothers who appear on the roll, but there seems to be no logical connection for them with Australia, except a comment on another website.

How they got on the Commemorative Roll is a mystery, but maybe that info then made it onto the other website to provide “corroboration” of their nationality but was really just repeating an erroneous statement from elsewhere (or the other way around, a book mentioned them as being Aussies, this led to their inclusion on the CRoll etc).

This leads me to the matter of Flight Sergeant Thomas Galbraith Paxton MiD RAF 1053584 - Son of William Hogg Paxton and Margaret Paxton, of Coldstream, Berwickshire. KIA 07/04/1942 while serving with 30SQN and buried Colombo (Kanatte) General Cemetery, Sri Lanka (info from CWGC).

I noticed him in the book “Aces High” which lists him as being an Australian and he makes it onto a Wiki list of Australian Aces (this list looks like it comes directly from the book though). The following is from a French website, but this site also refers back to “Aces High” (the copy of the book I read doesn’t include the Sydney reference, so I don’t know where that came from).


Originally from Sydney, Tom Paxton is sent to the Middle East as a Sergeant in 1941. He was posted to 250 Squadron during the summer before being transferred to 30 Squadron for defensive missions in Egypt. Between June 1941 and February 1942, he won five victories. Promoted Flight Sergeant in early March 1942, he accompanied the unit when it was sent to the Far East aboard the HMS Indomitable. On 9 March, 30 Squadron moved to Ceylon in order to defend the island. On April 5, he was engaged in the interception of the first attack launched from Japanese aircraft carriers while based in Colombo. During the battle, Paxton managed to kill 2 Zero aircraft but is himself hit and forced to abandon his burning aircraft. Picked up and taken to hospital with second degree burns, he died two days later from secondary shock.



I can't find any link to Australia. CWGC has no mention of Australia. The NAA didn't start a file on him, indicating that no relatives in Australia required notification of his passing.

I have tried searching the Aussie newspapers of the day to see if his death rated a mention with no result so far.


  • 0

#4 DaveB

DaveB

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 2,138 posts

Posted 14 August 2011 - 05:42 AM


This is another possible Commemorative Roll inclusion that doesn’t add up.

***************************************

(This section is from WWW.YORKSHIRE-AIRCRAFT.CO.UK)


Warwick BV336 on Sleights Moor, Whitby: Pilot - S/Ldr Edgar Andrew Good RCAF (C/18640), aged 29, of Valois, Quebec, Canada. Buried St Martin's Church, Houghton Hall, Norfolk. Son of Nickolai Andreyev and Nina Andreyevna. Step-son of Joseph Good of North Adelaide, South Australia.

S/Ldr Good's gravestone is at Houghton Hall, Norfolk. The life of the pilot Edgar Good needs further researching, he was born on 6th February 1914. A photographer Nikolai Platonovich Andreev (1882 - 1947) and an artist Nikolai Andreyevich Andreyev (1889-1938) were both Russians of some note. As it stands at the moment I assume he was a son of one of them. If he was why was he finally laid to rest in the grounds of a stately home in Norfolk - the home of the first British Prime Minister. The other members of his crew who had the same nationality were buried as usual in the wargraves plot at Harrogate. Why also had his parents, step-father and wife left to live in Australia?

***************************************


CWGC states: “Son of Nickolai Andreyev and Nina Andreyevna, and stepson of Joseph Good; husband of Elaine Blair Good, of North Adelaide, South Australia.”

This might help explain the matter when compared to the info on the Yorkshire crashes site “Son of Nickolai Andreyev and Nina Andreyevna. Step-son of Joseph Good of North Adelaide, South Australia.”

Name:
GOOD, EDGAR ANDREW
Initials:
E A
Nationality:
Canadian
Rank:
Squadron Leader
Regiment/Service:
Royal Canadian Air Force
Unit Text:
280 (R.A.F.) Sqdn.
Age:
29
Date of Death:
13/11/1943
Service No:
C/18640
Additional information:
Son of Nickolai Andreyev and Nina Andreyevna, and stepson of Joseph Good; husband of Elaine Blair Good, of North Adelaide, South Australia.
Casualty Type:
Commonwealth War Dead
Cemetery:
HOUGHTON (ST. MARTIN) CHURCHYARD



***************************************


Newspapers of the day indicate that Edgar Good married a South Australian girl that he met in Ceylon (where her parents lived at the time).

A report in The Advertiser Tues 31 Dec 1940 announces - News comes from Colombo of the engagement of Miss Elaine Gibson, daughter of Mr and Mrs Roy B Gibson of Colombo to Flying Officer Edgar Andrew Good, Montreal Canada. Elaine who is the niece of Mrs T C Angove of Renmark was educated at Woodlands School Glenelg

The Advertiser 8 July 1946 report in the social column advises - Mrs J Good arrives from Canada aboard MONTEREY to see her grandson for the first time.

The Advertiser Friday 18 Oct 1946 reports - Mrs J Good who has been visiting her daughter-in-law Mrs Elaine Good at LeFevre Tce North Adelaide for several months, left by express last night for Sydney to embark on Wangarella to return home to Montreal Canada.

***************************************

I can’t find any evidence that the SQNLDR ever set foot in Australia. Under the original Commemorative Roll inclusions his marriage would have seen him added, but now that they have tightened it up I don’t think it will happen.

I wonder if someone should contact the Yorkshire crashes site……….


  • 0

#5 spidge

spidge

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 11,017 posts
  • LocationMelbourne - Australia

Posted 14 August 2011 - 05:55 AM

Response from the AWM:

[FONT="]From:[/FONT][FONT="] Wendy Gadd [EMAIL=""][/EMAIL][mailto:Wendy.Gadd@awm.gov.au]
Sent: Monday, 8 August 2011 2:21 PM
To: [EMAIL="spidge@bigpond.net.au"]spidge@bigpond.net.au[/EMAIL]
Cc: Barlow, David FSGT
Subject: Commemorative Roll - Miller brothers[/FONT]

[FONT="]CROLL10/16[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Pilot Officer John Garland Miller 42865[/FONT]
[FONT="]Pilot Officer Rogers Freeman Garland Miller 42419[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Dear Geoff[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]I apologise for not getting back to you sooner in relation to the Miller brothers being included on the Commemorative Roll at the Australian War Memorial. I have searched but can find no information in the Memorial’s files as to why these two men were included on the roll. Each brother has a Commemorative Roll card that was compiled in the 1980’s with their service information. (Series AWM272) Looking at all of the research and information from the online forums it appears they were born in the UK. As you know the Commemorative Roll was primarily developed through appeals to the public for nominations, beginning in 1981. However I can find no specific information on these cases and why the two brothers were thought to have an Australian connection. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]A “Few of the Few” - Australians and the Battle of Britain [/FONT][FONT="]by Dennis Newton lists R Miller as an Australian casualty but footnotes that “considerable doubt exists as to whether or not RFG Miller was an Australian.” (page 281)[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]The RAF online Battle of Britain Roll of Honour at The Battle of Britain - Home Page lists RFG Miller as Australian. So it appears that at some time there was a belief that the brothers were Australian.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Current Memorial policy is that personnel incorrectly included on the Roll of Honour and the Commemorative Roll are to remain on the rolls. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]I have filed all of the relevant information and correspondence so if you do find out any further information please let us know.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]regards[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Wendy Gadd[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Assistant Curator[/FONT]
[FONT="]Official Records[/FONT]
[FONT="]Research Centre[/FONT]
[FONT="](02) 6243 4313[/FONT]
[FONT="][EMAIL="HonourRolls@awm.gov.au"]HonourRolls@awm.gov.au[/EMAIL][/FONT]

My response to them again on the possible reason for the initial error.

Hello Wendy,

I had forgotten all about this myself although I did take photos of the headstones of the family (very sad) at Radford Semele in Warwickshire while I was in the UK in May. Two sons lost within 6 weeks of each other. There was also the grave of their little sister who died at 8 months in 1938.

I do think I can now shed some light on the "error" as I have been contacted through my WW2 forum in the UK by a relative which you can add to the file.

Received this from the nephew of the Miller brothers.

" Rogers and John Miller

Hullo,

Rogers and John Miller were my mother's brothers. They are not Australian but come from Statford upon Avon where they were brought up on my grandfathers farm.

Corey Parkinson

"
And the wording which may have led to the confusion after he looked through some family papers of the time.

" I am afraid I should have listened more closely to my mother who died 2 years ago. She told me why there had been an error and now I can't remember the sequence. I have a huge box filled with paperwork etc concerning this era, so I will check when I have time.

I looked up this site out of curiosity as The Battle of Britain Historical Society wrote to me, telling me that they intend to erect a plaque in Rogers' honour at his school - King Edward VII - in June.

Carey "


" I can't imagine whose marriage that would be. Neither John nor Rogers were married and my mother got married @ 1947 to a pilot in the Fleet Airarm. The reception was I think held off Trafalgar square as her uncle was A.V. Alexander, First Lord of the Admiralty."



The final piece to the puzzle sounds very plausible.

" Hullo,

I just typed the whole newspaper cutting verbatum but it got denied ! So, the nitty gritty from The Stratford upon Avon Herald, 25th March 1999 is that the RAF Club in Piccadilly has the 209 Squadron crest (motto 'Tally Ho') It belonged to the Royal Auxiliary Air Force and the abbreviation was wrongly atributed by someone to be the Royal Austrailian Air Force.

I could type it all out again if you really want !

Carey
"

Thank you for your reply.

Cheers

Geoff
  • 0


Spidge,


My project is the collection of over 11,400+ RAAF Headstone/Memorial photos located in 70 countries during WW2 and the 360+ from WW1. Can you assist? Do you know someone that can?
-------------------------------------------------------
My Signature photo is the Battalion history of WW2 and the patch of the 2/8th battalion. (Blood & Bandages)
My Avatar is my dad, Gunner Frederick Edwin Swallow "C" Company, 2/8th Battalion, 19th Brigade, 6th Division AIF. Critically wounded on the first attack on Tobruk, January 21st 1941.



 


#6 Assam

Assam

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 489 posts

Posted 14 August 2011 - 06:39 AM

Next up are some possible Commemorative Roll (CRoll) anomalies. Spidge has brought up on other threads the matter of the Miller brothers who appear on the roll, but there seems to be no logical connection for them with Australia, except a comment on another website.

How they got on the Commemorative Roll is a mystery, but maybe that info then made it onto the other website to provide “corroboration” of their nationality but was really just repeating an erroneous statement from elsewhere (or the other way around, a book mentioned them as being Aussies, this led to their inclusion on the CRoll etc).

This leads me to the matter of Flight Sergeant Thomas Galbraith Paxton MiD RAF 1053584 - Son of William Hogg Paxton and Margaret Paxton, of Coldstream, Berwickshire. KIA 07/04/1942 while serving with 30SQN and buried Colombo (Kanatte) General Cemetery, Sri Lanka (info from CWGC).

I noticed him in the book “Aces High” which lists him as being an Australian and he makes it onto a Wiki list of Australian Aces (this list looks like it comes directly from the book though). The following is from a French website, but this site also refers back to “Aces High” (the copy of the book I read doesn’t include the Sydney reference, so I don’t know where that came from).


Originally from Sydney, Tom Paxton is sent to the Middle East as a Sergeant in 1941. He was posted to 250 Squadron during the summer before being transferred to 30 Squadron for defensive missions in Egypt. Between June 1941 and February 1942, he won five victories. Promoted Flight Sergeant in early March 1942, he accompanied the unit when it was sent to the Far East aboard the HMS Indomitable. On 9 March, 30 Squadron moved to Ceylon in order to defend the island. On April 5, he was engaged in the interception of the first attack launched from Japanese aircraft carriers while based in Colombo. During the battle, Paxton managed to kill 2 Zero aircraft but is himself hit and forced to abandon his burning aircraft. Picked up and taken to hospital with second degree burns, he died two days later from secondary shock.



I can't find any link to Australia. CWGC has no mention of Australia. The NAA didn't start a file on him, indicating that no relatives in Australia required notification of his passing.

I have tried searching the Aussie newspapers of the day to see if his death rated a mention with no result so far.


Regarding Paxton, somebody researched him to claim him as a British pilot amongst other commonwealth Pilots in a record of Hansard to the British Parliament.

Early day motion 502 - No. 30 SQUADRON RAF AND THE BATTLE OF CEYLON - UK Parliament


Hope this helps

regards

Simon
  • 0

#7 Assam

Assam

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 489 posts

Posted 14 August 2011 - 06:57 AM

This is another possible Commemorative Roll inclusion that doesn’t add up.

***************************************

(This section is from WWW.YORKSHIRE-AIRCRAFT.CO.UK)


Warwick BV336 on Sleights Moor, Whitby: Pilot - S/Ldr Edgar Andrew Good RCAF (C/18640), aged 29, of Valois, Quebec, Canada. Buried St Martin's Church, Houghton Hall, Norfolk. Son of Nickolai Andreyev and Nina Andreyevna. Step-son of Joseph Good of North Adelaide, South Australia.

S/Ldr Good's gravestone is at Houghton Hall, Norfolk. The life of the pilot Edgar Good needs further researching, he was born on 6th February 1914. A photographer Nikolai Platonovich Andreev (1882 - 1947) and an artist Nikolai Andreyevich Andreyev (1889-1938) were both Russians of some note. As it stands at the moment I assume he was a son of one of them. If he was why was he finally laid to rest in the grounds of a stately home in Norfolk - the home of the first British Prime Minister. The other members of his crew who had the same nationality were buried as usual in the wargraves plot at Harrogate. Why also had his parents, step-father and wife left to live in Australia?

***************************************


CWGC states: “Son of Nickolai Andreyev and Nina Andreyevna, and stepson of Joseph Good; husband of Elaine Blair Good, of North Adelaide, South Australia.”

This might help explain the matter when compared to the info on the Yorkshire crashes site “Son of Nickolai Andreyev and Nina Andreyevna. Step-son of Joseph Good of North Adelaide, South Australia.”

Name:
GOOD, EDGAR ANDREW
Initials:
E A
Nationality:
Canadian
Rank:
Squadron Leader
Regiment/Service:
Royal Canadian Air Force
Unit Text:
280 (R.A.F.) Sqdn.
Age:
29
Date of Death:
13/11/1943
Service No:
C/18640
Additional information:
Son of Nickolai Andreyev and Nina Andreyevna, and stepson of Joseph Good; husband of Elaine Blair Good, of North Adelaide, South Australia.
Casualty Type:
Commonwealth War Dead
Cemetery:
HOUGHTON (ST. MARTIN) CHURCHYARD



***************************************


Newspapers of the day indicate that Edgar Good married a South Australian girl that he met in Ceylon (where her parents lived at the time).

A report in The Advertiser Tues 31 Dec 1940 announces - News comes from Colombo of the engagement of Miss Elaine Gibson, daughter of Mr and Mrs Roy B Gibson of Colombo to Flying Officer Edgar Andrew Good, Montreal Canada. Elaine who is the niece of Mrs T C Angove of Renmark was educated at Woodlands School Glenelg

The Advertiser 8 July 1946 report in the social column advises - Mrs J Good arrives from Canada aboard MONTEREY to see her grandson for the first time.

The Advertiser Friday 18 Oct 1946 reports - Mrs J Good who has been visiting her daughter-in-law Mrs Elaine Good at LeFevre Tce North Adelaide for several months, left by express last night for Sydney to embark on Wangarella to return home to Montreal Canada.

***************************************

I can’t find any evidence that the SQNLDR ever set foot in Australia. Under the original Commemorative Roll inclusions his marriage would have seen him added, but now that they have tightened it up I don’t think it will happen.

I wonder if someone should contact the Yorkshire crashes site……….


It may well just be that simple that because he was married to a girl from Australia he was entittled by marraige status.

Remember, when you attested into the services in Australia, you were not asked if you were an Australian citizen, you were asked if you were a British Subject by birth or Natualisation on your attestation form. No Australian passports existed they were proxy British passports. As a serviceman from within the Empire, his marraige may well accredit him for CRoll status as he could have had automatic residency rights as a matter of course

So you would need to check out the status (for residency purposes) of a British subject who married an Australian Born British subject pre 1946.

food for thought

regards

Simon

simon
  • 0

#8 spidge

spidge

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 11,017 posts
  • LocationMelbourne - Australia

Posted 14 August 2011 - 01:08 PM

Regarding Paxton, somebody researched him to claim him as a British pilot amongst other commonwealth Pilots in a record of Hansard to the British Parliament.

Early day motion 502 - No. 30 SQUADRON RAF AND THE BATTLE OF CEYLON - UK Parliament


Hope this helps

regards

Simon


Hi Simon,

This link comes back as refused. Can you expand on the Hansard details?


Cheers

Geoff
  • 0


Spidge,


My project is the collection of over 11,400+ RAAF Headstone/Memorial photos located in 70 countries during WW2 and the 360+ from WW1. Can you assist? Do you know someone that can?
-------------------------------------------------------
My Signature photo is the Battalion history of WW2 and the patch of the 2/8th battalion. (Blood & Bandages)
My Avatar is my dad, Gunner Frederick Edwin Swallow "C" Company, 2/8th Battalion, 19th Brigade, 6th Division AIF. Critically wounded on the first attack on Tobruk, January 21st 1941.



 


#9 Assam

Assam

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 489 posts

Posted 14 August 2011 - 01:14 PM

Hi Simon,

This link comes back as refused. Can you expand on the Hansard details?


Cheers

Geoff



With all credit to Hansard

"Early day motion 502
Main content

Follow this EDM by:
No. 30 SQUADRON RAF AND THE BATTLE OF CEYLON

  • Session: 2000-01
  • Date tabled: 28.03.2001
  • Primary sponsor: Lewis, Julian
  • Sponsors:
That this House salutes the memory of the five Hurricane fighter pilots of No. 30 Squadron, Royal Air Force, who gave their lives defending Ceylon against 125 Japanese naval aircraft on 5th April 1942; celebrates the courage and skill of the British, Canadian, Australian and American pilots of 30 Squadron, 22 of whom scrambled to get airborne while their airfield was already under attack, yet inflicted losses which put the Japanese at a crucial disadvantage in the subsequent battles of the Coral Sea and Midway; and applauds the efforts of the 30 Squadron Association to raise £8,000 for a 60th anniversary ceremony in 2002 and for a permanent memorial at Ratamala Airfield, Sri Lanka, dedicated to the memory of Sergeant Allan Browne RAFVR (Australian), Pilot Officer Garth Caswell RAAF (Australian), Pilot Officer Donald Geffene RAFVR (American), Flight Sergeant Tony Ovens DFM, RAFVR (British) and Flight Sergeant Thomas Paxton MiD, RAFVR (British)."

107 MP's signed this

Regards

simon
  • 0

#10 spidge

spidge

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 11,017 posts
  • LocationMelbourne - Australia

Posted 14 August 2011 - 01:49 PM

With all credit to Hansard

"Early day motion 502
Main content

Follow this EDM by:

No. 30 SQUADRON RAF AND THE BATTLE OF CEYLON

  • Session: 2000-01
  • Date tabled: 28.03.2001
  • Primary sponsor: Lewis, Julian
  • Sponsors:
That this House salutes the memory of the five Hurricane fighter pilots of No. 30 Squadron, Royal Air Force, who gave their lives defending Ceylon against 125 Japanese naval aircraft on 5th April 1942; celebrates the courage and skill of the British, Canadian, Australian and American pilots of 30 Squadron, 22 of whom scrambled to get airborne while their airfield was already under attack, yet inflicted losses which put the Japanese at a crucial disadvantage in the subsequent battles of the Coral Sea and Midway; and applauds the efforts of the 30 Squadron Association to raise £8,000 for a 60th anniversary ceremony in 2002 and for a permanent memorial at Ratamala Airfield, Sri Lanka, dedicated to the memory of Sergeant Allan Browne RAFVR (Australian), Pilot Officer Garth Caswell RAAF (Australian), Pilot Officer Donald Geffene RAFVR (American), Flight Sergeant Tony Ovens DFM, RAFVR (British) and Flight Sergeant Thomas Paxton MiD, RAFVR (British)."

107 MP's signed this

Regards

simon


Thanks Simon,

I didn't even have Paxton on my database so I do not have to deduct.

There are couple more doubtful ones to be reconciled.

Just having the right eggs in the right basket.


Cheers

Geoff
  • 0


Spidge,


My project is the collection of over 11,400+ RAAF Headstone/Memorial photos located in 70 countries during WW2 and the 360+ from WW1. Can you assist? Do you know someone that can?
-------------------------------------------------------
My Signature photo is the Battalion history of WW2 and the patch of the 2/8th battalion. (Blood & Bandages)
My Avatar is my dad, Gunner Frederick Edwin Swallow "C" Company, 2/8th Battalion, 19th Brigade, 6th Division AIF. Critically wounded on the first attack on Tobruk, January 21st 1941.



 


#11 Marks

Marks

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 103 posts

Posted 15 August 2011 - 01:24 PM

Hi

Really interest topic. I'm trying to discover how Australian this RAF man is :-

1171003/157746 F/O William MATHER D.F.M LG 15/6/43 97 Sqn
KIA 22/6/1944 49 Sqn Age 24

I visited the RAF Museum Hendon some years ago, and obtained photocopies of some AMB Air Ministry Bulletins. These contain some biographical information on air force on gallantry award personnel.

For William Mather

Born 1920 New South Wales, Australia ! His home is at Blyth Northumberland. His civil occupation was clerk. He enlisted in 1940 and is now wireless operator air gunner.

Mark
  • 0

#12 spidge

spidge

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 11,017 posts
  • LocationMelbourne - Australia

Posted 15 August 2011 - 01:54 PM

Hi

Really interest topic. I'm trying to discover how Australian this RAF man is :-

1171003/157746 F/O William MATHER D.F.M LG 15/6/43 97 Sqn
KIA 22/6/1944 49 Sqn Age 24

I visited the RAF Museum Hendon some years ago, and obtained photocopies of some AMB Air Ministry Bulletins. These contain some biographical information on air force on gallantry award personnel.

For William Mather

Born 1920 New South Wales, Australia ! His home is at Blyth Northumberland. His civil occupation was clerk. He enlisted in 1940 and is now wireless operator air gunner.

Mark


Hi Mark,

Great information - Seems there is another Aussie in the RAF to add to my to be confirmed list.

In Memory of
Flying Officer WILLIAM MATHER
D F M

157746, 49 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
who died
on 22 June 1944

Remembered with honour
SCHOONSELHOF CEMETERY



This one would not have come up on my search in the CWGC database as there is no NOK listed and he is not on the Australian Commemorative Roll.

Hopefully someone on the forum will be able to provide details of the DFM and his death.

Cheers

Geoff
  • 0


Spidge,


My project is the collection of over 11,400+ RAAF Headstone/Memorial photos located in 70 countries during WW2 and the 360+ from WW1. Can you assist? Do you know someone that can?
-------------------------------------------------------
My Signature photo is the Battalion history of WW2 and the patch of the 2/8th battalion. (Blood & Bandages)
My Avatar is my dad, Gunner Frederick Edwin Swallow "C" Company, 2/8th Battalion, 19th Brigade, 6th Division AIF. Critically wounded on the first attack on Tobruk, January 21st 1941.



 


#13 Assam

Assam

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 489 posts

Posted 15 August 2011 - 02:19 PM

Here are 2 LG's for Mather:
Viewing Page 4818 of Issue 36230
Viewing Page 1053 of Issue 36405

His LG for the DFM must be between October 1943 -February1944 as he does not carry the post nominals for his comissioning LG entry but does for his Promotion to F/O.

Tried many variables but coming up blank

Regards

simon
  • 0

#14 Marks

Marks

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 103 posts

Posted 15 August 2011 - 05:59 PM

The Distinguished Flying Medal Register for the Second World War - Ian Tavender

MATHER WILLIAM 1171003 Sgt 97 Sqn

LG 15/6/43 Sorties 34 Flying Hours 199 Wireless Operator AIR 2/8955

This NCO has taken part in many successful sorties against German and Italian towns. His targets have included Danzig, Le Creusot and Milan by DAYLIGHT. Sgt Mather's skill and courage have invariably been praiseworthy.

14th April 1943

Mark
  • 0

#15 MR J

MR J

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts

Posted 04 March 2012 - 05:44 PM

Hi all I only joined today after reading this post , William Mather is my uncle who I never met , I was talking to my dad who came to UK from Australia when 5 years old and is Williams younger brother , if anyone needs any information I would be pleased to help

John
  • 0

#16 MR J

MR J

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts

Posted 04 March 2012 - 05:44 PM

Hi all I only joined today after reading this post , William Mather is my uncle who I never met , I was talking to my dad who came to UK from Australia when 5 years old and is Williams younger brother , if anyone needs any information I would be pleased to help

John
  • 0

#17 MR J

MR J

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts

Posted 04 March 2012 - 06:01 PM

My dad is originally from Weston a small mining town close to Newcastle New South Wales Australia and has photographs , news clippings and also my uncle William Mather medals , again , I would be pleased to help any further

John
  • 0

#18 CL1

CL1

    .

  • Registered Users
  • 12,960 posts

Posted 04 March 2012 - 07:17 PM

Welcome John
welcome to the forum
please post any info/photos you have forum members will be most interested.

regards
Clive
  • 0

#19 Peter Clare

Peter Clare

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 10,249 posts

Posted 04 March 2012 - 11:49 PM

In Memory of
Flying Officer WILLIAM MATHER
D F M

157746, 49 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
who died
on 22 June 1944

Remembered with honour
SCHOONSELHOF CEMETERY



This one would not have come up on my search in the CWGC database as there is no NOK listed and he is not on the Australian Commemorative Roll.

Hopefully someone on the forum will be able to provide details of the DFM and his death.

Cheers

Geoff


Details of the above loss.

21-22 June 1944

49 Squadron
Lancaster I NE808 EA-D
Op. Wesseling

Took off from Fiskerton at 2314 hrs. Crashed at Loenhout in the province of Antwerpen 24 km NNE from the centre of Antwerp.

Crew.
S/L. L E. Cox +
F/O. J H. Ingram +
F/O. J. McG Freckleton DFM +
F/O. M. James DFC +
F/O. W. Mather DFM +
F/O. W E. Day +
F/O. A. Hambly +

Source - ' RAF Bomber Command Losses' Vol.5 - W R. Chorley
  • 0


 

In remembrance of my father Sgt S. Clare R.A.F Missing from operations 13th August 1942. Never Known, Forever Loved.


#20 spidge

spidge

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 11,017 posts
  • LocationMelbourne - Australia

Posted 05 March 2012 - 01:59 AM

My dad is originally from Weston a small mining town close to Newcastle New South Wales Australia and has photographs , news clippings and also my uncle William Mather medals , again , I would be pleased to help any further

John


Fantastic news John.

I have forwarded you an email as requested.

Cheers

Geoff
  • 0


Spidge,


My project is the collection of over 11,400+ RAAF Headstone/Memorial photos located in 70 countries during WW2 and the 360+ from WW1. Can you assist? Do you know someone that can?
-------------------------------------------------------
My Signature photo is the Battalion history of WW2 and the patch of the 2/8th battalion. (Blood & Bandages)
My Avatar is my dad, Gunner Frederick Edwin Swallow "C" Company, 2/8th Battalion, 19th Brigade, 6th Division AIF. Critically wounded on the first attack on Tobruk, January 21st 1941.



 


#21 spidge

spidge

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 11,017 posts
  • LocationMelbourne - Australia

Posted 05 March 2012 - 02:00 AM

Details of the above loss.

21-22 June 1944

49 Squadron
Lancaster I NE808 EA-D
Op. Wesseling

Took off from Fiskerton at 2314 hrs. Crashed at Loenhout in the province of Antwerpen 24 km NNE from the centre of Antwerp.

Crew.
S/L. L E. Cox +
F/O. J H. Ingram +
F/O. J. McG Freckleton DFM +
F/O. M. James DFC +
F/O. W. Mather DFM +
F/O. W E. Day +
F/O. A. Hambly +

Source - ' RAF Bomber Command Losses' Vol.5 - W R. Chorley


Thanks Peter,

Great info again.

Cheers

Geoff
  • 0


Spidge,


My project is the collection of over 11,400+ RAAF Headstone/Memorial photos located in 70 countries during WW2 and the 360+ from WW1. Can you assist? Do you know someone that can?
-------------------------------------------------------
My Signature photo is the Battalion history of WW2 and the patch of the 2/8th battalion. (Blood & Bandages)
My Avatar is my dad, Gunner Frederick Edwin Swallow "C" Company, 2/8th Battalion, 19th Brigade, 6th Division AIF. Critically wounded on the first attack on Tobruk, January 21st 1941.



 


#22 spidge

spidge

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 11,017 posts
  • LocationMelbourne - Australia

Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:52 AM

21-22 June 1944

49 Squadron
Lancaster I NE808 EA-D
Op. Wesseling

Took off from Fiskerton at 2314 hrs. Crashed at Loenhout in the province of Antwerpen 24 km NNE from the centre of Antwerp.

Crew.
S/L. L E. Cox +
F/O. J H. Ingram +
F/O. J. McG Freckleton DFM +
F/O. M. James DFC +
F/O. W. Mather DFM + (Of Australia)
F/O. W E. Day +
F/O. A. Hambly +

Source - ' RAF Bomber Command Losses' Vol.5 - W R. Chorley

Thanks Peter,

Great info again.

Cheers

Geoff


On this day there were 286 Commonwealth Air Force Deaths.

RAF 202


RAAF 32


RCAF 48


RNZAF 4

  • 0


Spidge,


My project is the collection of over 11,400+ RAAF Headstone/Memorial photos located in 70 countries during WW2 and the 360+ from WW1. Can you assist? Do you know someone that can?
-------------------------------------------------------
My Signature photo is the Battalion history of WW2 and the patch of the 2/8th battalion. (Blood & Bandages)
My Avatar is my dad, Gunner Frederick Edwin Swallow "C" Company, 2/8th Battalion, 19th Brigade, 6th Division AIF. Critically wounded on the first attack on Tobruk, January 21st 1941.



 


#23 MR J

MR J

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts

Posted 05 March 2012 - 06:13 PM

From both myself and my dad , thanks to everyone for your help regarding his brother F/O William Mather DFM and Geoff I have emailed relevant details which may hopefully be of help
Many thanks , John
  • 0

#24 MR J

MR J

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts

Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:53 AM

Hi Geoff hope you received F/O William Mather DFM photos okay - 1st time used a scanner !

Many thanks John
  • 0

#25 spidge

spidge

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 11,017 posts
  • LocationMelbourne - Australia

Posted 06 March 2012 - 01:36 PM

Hi Geoff hope you received F/O William Mather DFM photos okay - 1st time used a scanner !

Many thanks John

Thanks John,

Photos received - Thank you.

Have put them together on one image.

Attached File  Mather_William Photo.jpg   93.9K   14 downloads

Cheers

Geoff

Attached Files


  • 0


Spidge,


My project is the collection of over 11,400+ RAAF Headstone/Memorial photos located in 70 countries during WW2 and the 360+ from WW1. Can you assist? Do you know someone that can?
-------------------------------------------------------
My Signature photo is the Battalion history of WW2 and the patch of the 2/8th battalion. (Blood & Bandages)
My Avatar is my dad, Gunner Frederick Edwin Swallow "C" Company, 2/8th Battalion, 19th Brigade, 6th Division AIF. Critically wounded on the first attack on Tobruk, January 21st 1941.



 


#26 MR J

MR J

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts

Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:36 PM

Hi Geoff , many thanks for all the time and work you have put in and the great news received from yourself today , that finally the inclusion on the Commemorative Roll at The Australian War Memorial of my uncle - F/O William Mather DFM was announced .
Again many thanks from myself and family . Cheers , John
  • 0

#27 spidge

spidge

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 11,017 posts
  • LocationMelbourne - Australia

Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:12 PM

Hi John,

I am as excited as you, your dad and the family. Quite a lot of work and many emails however a good result for all concerned.

I will start another thread leading back to this one.

Cheers

Geoff
  • 0


Spidge,


My project is the collection of over 11,400+ RAAF Headstone/Memorial photos located in 70 countries during WW2 and the 360+ from WW1. Can you assist? Do you know someone that can?
-------------------------------------------------------
My Signature photo is the Battalion history of WW2 and the patch of the 2/8th battalion. (Blood & Bandages)
My Avatar is my dad, Gunner Frederick Edwin Swallow "C" Company, 2/8th Battalion, 19th Brigade, 6th Division AIF. Critically wounded on the first attack on Tobruk, January 21st 1941.



 


#28 DaveB

DaveB

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 2,138 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 11:59 PM

Hi all – just re-hijacking this thread to post on what I will sub-title

 

“The perils of original research”

 

I am currently going through some RAAF Unit Histories (ORBs) that have been digitised by the NAA and comparing some of the info to other Aussie records.

 

In the 1947 ORB for HQ Western Area is an entry for a high speed record attempt for flying Perth to Melbourne (see attached).  It lists the pilots (name & service number) and the aircraft details.

 

The Mosquito used is listed as A52-183 and the pilot is listed as Flight Lieutenant G.W. Tuck (408938) - the aircraft set a new record of exactly 5 hours for the flight.

 

Numerous newspaper articles covered the flights in both directions with photos of the aircraft and the pilots (example attached.

 

So, over to the nominal roll and that is where the fun begins – FLTLT George William Tuck (408938) is shown as having died 24 November 1944 and that he is commemorated on a memorial in Portland, Victoria.

 

Next to the AWM ROH which confirmed his date of death in a Flying Battle over North West Europe while flying with 128SQN RAF.  Searching the CWGC shows that he is commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial.

 

 

Now what, says I – so back to the newspapers where I notice that some of them mention his navigator:

 

“The Mosquito will be piloted by Flight-Lieutenant G. Tuck, with Flight-Lieutenant H. B. O'Connor as navigator.  Skipper of the Lincoln will be Wing-Commander I. F. Rose, who is chief flying instructor at the1 Central Flying School. He will be assisted by Flight-Lieutenant C. E. Wright.”

 

It’s not a big thing, but everyone has two initials except Tuck – so back to the nominal roll to search for TUCK, G in the RAAF.  Only two possibles, the one shown in the ORB and Squadron Leader Geoffrey Tuck AFC O33108 (409348) who discharged from the RAAF in 1955

 

His pers file has been digitised by the NAA and it shows that following the war he was a highly regarded flying instructor – so it is safe to believe that he was the pilot in 1947

 

 

However, it begs the question of how the incorrect officer’s details ended up in the ORB – somebody, somewhere must have had access to files on both members and crossed his wires somehow.

 

 

*********************************************************

 

Other crew:

 

Flight-Lieutenant H. B. O'Connor - enlisted in 1936 & discharged in 1958 as Squadron Leader O'CONNOR, Harold Ballan O3351 (2242)

 

Wing-Commander I. F. Rose – enlisted in 1938 & discharged in 1972 as Group Captain ROSE, Ian Frederick D'Arcy AFC O373 (269)

 

Flight-Lieutenant C. E. Wright – not found on nominal roll, possible post-war enlistment (??)

Attached Files


Edited by DaveB, 23 September 2013 - 12:01 AM.

  • 0

#29 spidge

spidge

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 11,017 posts
  • LocationMelbourne - Australia

Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:48 AM

This really brings to light that you should not believe everything you read.

 

Great sleuthing Dave.

 

 

Cheers

 

Geoff


  • 0


Spidge,


My project is the collection of over 11,400+ RAAF Headstone/Memorial photos located in 70 countries during WW2 and the 360+ from WW1. Can you assist? Do you know someone that can?
-------------------------------------------------------
My Signature photo is the Battalion history of WW2 and the patch of the 2/8th battalion. (Blood & Bandages)
My Avatar is my dad, Gunner Frederick Edwin Swallow "C" Company, 2/8th Battalion, 19th Brigade, 6th Division AIF. Critically wounded on the first attack on Tobruk, January 21st 1941.



 


#30 DaveB

DaveB

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 2,138 posts

Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:21 AM

Cheers Geoff - I got all excited for a few minutes thinking I had uncovered some major stuff-up where some bloke declared dead during the war turned up alive and none of the responsible agencies updated their records accordingly.

 

Then a slightly more mundane reality became apparent......

 

 

Just another typo.


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users