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Prisoner Of War Lists

wo 392/21

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#31 sirjahn

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 08:56 PM

Is there a central repository/database of the British and Canadian PWs online like the US NARA POW database?  In particular the units that the individuals were assigned prior to capture.

 

I have the names and service numbers of approximately 300 British and Canadian PWs that passed through or were liberated at Rennes Military Hospital (AKA Frontstalag 221 W, Zweilager Rennes, EPS Rennes, Stalag 221) and am attempting to associate names with units and where they ended up.  My eventual goal is to create a website dedicated to the Hospital with as much detail about the Germans, PWs  and French that were there.


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#32 PsyWar.Org

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:56 PM

Dale,

 

There's this record at the National Archives that can be downloaded for free: WO 392/1: http://discovery.nat...392/1&_sd=&_ed=

 

It lists all the POWs in Occupied Europe and gives their Regiment or Corps. This is the document that started this thread. The list of POW camps given is very inaccurate but should be sufficient regarding regiment or corps.

 

If you want more detail on the men, including which battalion they served in, next of kin, etc. then an alternative approach would be to search for liberation questionnaires for them. Not all returning POWs completed these but around 50 to 60% of them did.

As the POWs were all liberated from the same place it could be a case of all of them or none of them completed a liberation questionnaire depending on whether they passed through an IS9 interrogation centre or were repatriated immediately back to the UK. Seeing as this was a hospital then perhaps it's the latter case but probably worth doing a spot check on a few names if you're able to get to the National Archives at Kew.

 

Lee


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#33 sirjahn

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 07:16 PM

Thanks.  I will start with that link.  If I can get the regiment I am good.

 

Edit:

 

In looking at the file it appears to be dated 3/2/43 on the second page of the document which is too early for me.  Is there one dated October 1944 or so which might have the guys I am looking for?

 

I have looked for all the officers that were at the Rennes Military Hospital and none are on that list.  The next later version of the list is not online and a copy would have to be ordered.


Edited by sirjahn, 10 January 2014 - 07:45 PM.

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#34 PsyWar.Org

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 08:17 PM

That list is supposed to date from September 1944.

The date on page two I suspect is a badly written 3/2/93 as it seems to relate to the PRO (Public Record Office) rubber stamp and signature. That was probably the date the document was received by the Archives.

There is an April 1945 edition of the list as well, files WO 392/11 to WO 392/20.

But if you have a FindMyPast subscription or your local library has then this will probably meet your needs: http://www.findmypas...isoners-of-war/
(They don't actually say which records were used to compile their lists)
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#35 horsapassenger

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:31 PM

The Canadian Forces have their own POW list - I found this and a few others (unlisted) in the depths of the National Archives

 

John

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#36 sirjahn

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:23 PM

I saw that each of the Commonwealth nations had their own PW lists.  Unfortunately none are online and none are searchable.  The expense of getting these lists at 200+ pages would break the bank.


Edited by sirjahn, 13 January 2014 - 04:23 PM.

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#37 PsyWar.Org

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 06:10 PM

I saw that each of the Commonwealth nations had their own PW lists.  Unfortunately none are online and none are searchable.  The expense of getting these lists at 200+ pages would break the bank.

 

 

From the latest quotes I've been told TNA are charging £3.00 a page, so a 200 page document from them would likely cost you over £600.00.

 

I provide digital photographs at £0.09 per page, so I'd charge £18.00 (that's less than $30 US) for a 200 page document.

 

But wouldn't a number of your British POWs being listed in free September 1944 list or were they are captured too late to be listed in it?


Edited by PsyWar.Org, 13 January 2014 - 06:13 PM.

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#38 sirjahn

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:57 PM

I have looked through the free list for all of the officers and a smattering of enlisted with no hits.  So I would say they were captured too late to make that list.  Consider that is 3 months (June, July, August) from the earliest possible capture to the publishing date it is quite probable that the Germans communications through the Red Cross would take longer.

 

I would assume that using the September 44 list as a guide that the April 45 list would be about 500 pages.  Canadians would be say 200 pages.


Edited by sirjahn, 13 January 2014 - 10:03 PM.

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#39 Mike Mertens

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 01:35 PM

I have just discovered this page and now intend to research my father's wartime history. My father was Captain (later, Major) John Charles Mertens a member of the Tyneside Territorials Blackwatch, Ist Regiment, 51st Highland division. My father was wounded and captured outside of Dunkirk. I have yet to check his Regimental details. That is his Service number  and to which POW camps he was incarcerated in. I believe he was in one camp with Airey Neave MP (deceased). Before my father's death he mentioned several incidents relating to attempted escapes however he never mentioned the disasters leading up to Dunkirk. He was an engineer in civilian life and post war he spent nearly 5 years in Germany before immigrating to Australia..  Any advice gratefully received. Please note that I am living in Australia. Also somethings that may be of interest. I have one of the silk maps of Europe and Germany that were provided as scarves. More importantly I have a copy of "The Quill". It is collection of POW cartoons, stories, poems etc that was edited and produced as a limited edition after WW2. I also have a Brass Bowl that appears to be a racing trophy for yachting. 1946. Kiel' I can only suspect that it would have been for racing  captured /confiscated German yachts by allied crews.

If this all makes sense to anyone I'd appreciate some assistance in researching some of the topics and items mentioned above.

 

Thank you

 

Mike Mertens   


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#40 dbf

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 01:55 PM

Hello and welcome to the forum
The 1940 section would be the best place deal with his BEF, pre-captivity service, perhaps you could start a thread there for that aspect.
http://ww2talk.com/f.../forum/63-1940/


This from Ancestry: UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945:

Name: J C Mertens
Rank: Lieutenant
Army Number: 99148
Regiment: Black Watch
POW Number: 326
Camp Type: Oflag
Camp Number: IX-A/Z
Camp Location: Rotenburg an der Fulda, Hesse

 


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#41 Drew5233

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 02:16 PM

Hi Mike,

 

Step in to my 1940 office and I'll see what I can dig up for you. As Di says start a thread in the 1940 section and I'll see what I can dig out for you. I have the units war diary but off the top of my head June may be missing, many of the 51 Divs are due to them being captured and I doubt he'll be in the missing men file being an officer. All that said I reckon I can find something for you with his name on :)

 

Cheers and look forward to seeing you in the best part of the forum ;)

 

Andy


Edited by Drew5233, 30 June 2014 - 02:17 PM.

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#42 NickFenton

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 02:28 PM

Mike,

 

I would suggest a copy of his POW Liberation Questionnaire maybe worth looking at. This will tell you where and when he was captured and which camps he was in.

 

Airey Neave was in Oflag IX - A/H and Stalag XX-A Thorn before going onto to Colditz so l would think Thorn would be the likely location when your Father came across him but they were moved around quite a lot, but his Liberation Questionnaire would tell you that.

 

Regards,

 

Nick

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#43 Mr Jinks

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 03:30 PM

He may have been 51st Highland post war but not in 1940 he was with 70th Brigade he was commissioned into the 12th DLI in Sept 1939 from cadet Sgt Tonbridge School Con. Transferred along with other DLI officers on the 20th Dec 1939 he was a member of the Territorial Army until 1966 having been demobilised in 1946 he served with 21st Army Group, Shaef following hi release Promotion dates 2 Lieut 2/9/1939 ,Lt 2/3/1941 Hon Major  10/01/1946 his home address on enlistment was Victoria House, Vernon Place, Bloomsbury Park, London. He was also at Stalag 326 near Senne.

(the information isn't mine I simply asked a question of former member Verrieres)

 

Kyle


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#44 Drew5233

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 03:34 PM

Do you know where he went after 12 DLI. Their diaries stop in December 1939.


Edited by Drew5233, 30 June 2014 - 03:35 PM.

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#45 Mr Jinks

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 03:46 PM

Hi Andy,

 

12th DLI became  1st Tyneside Scottish ,Black Watch I believe  that's why the DLI officers were transferred en -masse?

 

Kyle 


Edited by Mr Jinks, 30 June 2014 - 03:48 PM.

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#46 ADM199

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 02:24 PM

Perhaps those doubting  my Post will look on the Note added to the File description on "Discovery".

 

T.N.A. have added my comments, and as far as I have looked into the File Service Nos. appear to be as I ORIGINALLY stated.  100% ACCURATE.


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#47 NickFenton

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:54 PM

Tried sending you a PM.

 

what was this about?

 

Regards,

 

Nick


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#48 dbf

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 10:17 PM

I believe this is the file and note, post quoted below
 
http://discovery.nat...ails/r/C2581749

Reference: WO 392/21
Description: Imperial prisoners of war held in Italy:
 
Section 1: British Army.
Section 2: Australian Army.
Section 3: Canadian Army.
Section 4: New Zealand Army.
Section 5: South African Army.
Section 6: Indian Army.
Section 7: Naval Forces and Merchant Seamen.
Section 8: Air Forces.

 

Note: This document is a compilation of lists of members of the Allied Forces who were reported by Italian or Red Cross sources as being prisoners in Italian hands, minus those known officially to have died in Italian hands. The document includes men listed who died as a POW at sea in 1942, and also some listed as being in Libyan camps or buried in Greece. Camp locations are given where men were last known to be, in most cases.

.

Now we come to WO 392/21:- I like Steve thought this was P.O.W. Locations as of August 1943 but in the last 18 months I have found them not to be anything near to that.

Camp details are totally out of date and in many cases the prisoner had only been in the camp a matter of days and had moved on as many as four more times before the Armistace. They were compared with statements made by 4100 Escapers into Switzerland I have. Less than 3% were in the Camp Given.

About three weeks ago I studied the file in great depth and found the following :- Over 240 are given a Libyan Camp as location. Many others are given no location at all.

The most surprising find was the names of 608 P.O.W. who had died on the S.S.Scillin on 14/11/1942. Amongst these was my Father, with the wrong initials but correct Service No.
At the same time the casualty list for the Nino Bixio(17/8/1942) was checked against the file. Ninety one were found listed of which Fifteen were buried in Greece.

66808 Pte E F Chell 21st Btn. 2 N.Z.E.F.
33695 Pte I G Pavicic 24th Btn. 2 N.Z.E.F.
19635 Pte D Peterson 26th Btn. 2 N.Z.E.F.
46191 Pte O T Rowe 25th Btn. 2 N.Z.E.F.
4346264 Pte W Martin 5th Btn. East Yorks. Rgt.
4618109 Pte M S Mills 5th Btn. East Yorks. Rgt.
4466532 Pte P Morgan 8th Btn. D.L.I.
7904051 Tpr W F Mottram 4th Btn. R.T.R.
7366678 Pte J C Muir R.A.M.C.
4346342 Pte J Murray 5th Btn. East Yorks. Rgt.
4461386 Pte R W Peel 8th Btn. D.L.I.
941950 Gnr J J Prosser 11th Rgt. R.H.A.
7894001 Sgt.J E Riley 50th Btn. R.T.R.
7933092 Tpr W Sherratt 50th Btn. R.T.R.
7917570 Tpr N J Thompson 50th Btn R.T.R. listed as being in Camp 82.
Others had no Camp location given.

No doubt more "Ghosts" could be found to add to the 699 Listed.

The file gives the impression of having been compiled from lists of prisoners taken between 1941 and 1943 that were given by the Italians.
Those confirmed as dead have been deleted.
The Information in the File is just seriously misleading in many places except for Service Nos which seemed to be 100%

Hope this Post helps those with little or no knowledge of P.O.W. in WW11


Edited by dbf, 08 September 2014 - 10:22 PM.

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