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BEF Vehicles


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#1 JCB

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 09:52 AM

EDIT-anyone looking for BEF vehicle pictures will also find many on this thread-
http://www.ww2talk.c...ngs-others.html

I was wondering if you had to identify an absolutely typical BEF vehicle for each category what would it be , heres my thoughts-

Motorcycles
BSA m20

Cars
Austin Seven
Hillman 10hp
Humber Station Wagon

Trucks/Lorries
8 cwt 4x2 – Humber
15 cwt 4x2 – Morris CS8
30cwt 4x2- Bedford OX
3 ton 4x2 - Bedford OY
3 ton 6x4 - Leyland Retreiver

Artillery tractors
18/25 pounder – Morris Quad 4x4
Bofors - Morris CDSW 6x4
3.7IN AA / 7.2in- Scammel Pioneer 6x4

Carriers
Bren Carrier

Armour
Armoured cars – Morris CS9 (the only ones ?)

PS for anyone looking for vehicle pics their's a superb selection in this thread-
http://www.ww2talk.c...ngs-others.html

Craig

Edited by JCB, 03 February 2012 - 01:38 PM.

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#2 May1940

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:20 PM

In answer to your question, I would add a few more favourites. For starters:

Cars
Austin 8HP - the junior officers' run-around
Humber Snipe - the senior officer's car

Trucks/Lorries
Morris Commercial PU 8 cwt - seen in large quantities with the BEF
Bedford MWD 15 cwt - again seen in large quantities
Morris Commercial CDF 30 cwt 6x4 - many of them with BEF but not seen much afterwards
Guy FBAX 6x4 Wireless 6x4
Bedford and Austin - various impressed civilian lorries eg Bedford WHG

Artillery tractors
Morris CDSW (the field artillery tractor as distinct from the Bofors tractor you mention)

Carriers
Scout

Armoured Cars
Guy Mk1

Ambulances
Austin K2
Mann Egerton body on Bedford lorry chassis

I am sure others will have other ideas.

By the way, the 7.2 inch gun came after France. The lookalike with the BEF is the 8 inch.

Andrew
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#3 JCB

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:52 PM

Interesting , never knew the BEF had Guy armoured cars.

Craig
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#4 May1940

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 02:25 PM

Craig

There were six there with the so-called 'Phantom Mission'

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45936&stc=1&d=1298039070

Andrew

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#5 JCB

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 02:51 PM

Brilliant , a pic as well:)

Craig
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#6 Drew5233

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 03:00 PM

Craig

There were six there with the so-called 'Phantom Mission'

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45936&stc=1&d=1298039070

Andrew


I wonder if that belongs to this chap?

http://www.ww2talk.c...-victorias.html

and this chap?

http://www.ww2talk.c...identified.html

Andrew-Does the picture come with any description?
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#7 singeager

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 05:06 PM

Dont forget to add the Mk1 & Mk1B Daimler Dingo to your list of armoured cars

http://daimler-fight...F 1939-1940.pdf
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:D50mph forward and 45mph backward at 4mpg.:huh:
www.daimler-fighting-vehicles.co.uk

#8 May1940

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 05:40 PM

Andy

The picture (needless to say) came from Ebay and I don't recall any caption. Jan might be able to narrow down the location. I am a bit confused about all the missions now. I thought there was one - No 3 Air Mission that was also called the Hopkinson mission - and it had six Guy 'wheeled tanks'. I would be interested to hear it confirmed.

Andrew
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#9 Radek-Austin

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 06:03 PM

Lorries

Austin K30
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#10 Drew5233

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 06:10 PM

Andy

The picture (needless to say) came from Ebay and I don't recall any caption. Jan might be able to narrow down the location. I am a bit confused about all the missions now. I thought there was one - No 3 Air Mission that was also called the Hopkinson mission - and it had six Guy 'wheeled tanks'. I would be interested to hear it confirmed.

Andrew


I'll post a thread with a list Andrew-There was a few.

If that Guy 'Tank' is linked to the above two men then that building has been knocked down and replaced with a roundabout.
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#11 lesfreathy

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 07:55 PM

Guy of course with the Quad artillery tractor and the general service

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#12 lesfreathy

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 08:15 PM

Many Albions went over and never came back including the civilian type model CL 125, the first shot is poor but shows how desperate it must have been to move troops one good bend and they all fly off. a small number of mobile operating vehicles were also taken to France

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#13 lesfreathy

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 08:18 PM

finally the early cabbed AEC Matador and the FWD/AEC R6T recovery tractor here giving assistance to a morris 15cwt

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#14 rewdco

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 09:53 PM

Andy

The picture (needless to say) came from Ebay and I don't recall any caption. Jan might be able to narrow down the location.
Andrew


Sorry Andrew, no idea where that could be...

By the way, great to see that there is more and more interest in this forum! :):):)

Jan
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#15 May1940

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 03:44 PM

Good pictures Les. I have searched for the identity of that Albion flatbed before, without success, so thanks for solving it for me. The mobile operating vehicle is also new to me. Did any go to France?

I assume the Matador picture is taken in the UK from the terrain and the general look of training / testing about the picture.

We had a big van crop up the other day when looking at ambulance vehicles on the beach at Dunkirk - to me it looked like a cross between horsebox and a furniture van. It is pictured here:

http://www.ww2talk.c...vehicles-2.html

I don't suppose you know what that is do you?

Andrew

Edited by May1940, 06 June 2012 - 06:48 PM.
spelling

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#16 JCB

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 07:44 PM

Armoured cars -Forgot about the Dingos , found a French web site that gives BEF numbers as 6 Guys , 12 Dingos and 38 Morris CS9's ( I think) so CS9'S in the lead.
Guys - probably seen as many Guy quads in photos as Morris's but not so many Guy 15cwts.
Of course all views coloured by where the photographer's were but I would say Morris 15cwt CS8'sand Bedford OY 3 tonners ( with Austins K3 close second ) seem to be most numerous vehicles.
Craig
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#17 lesfreathy

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 09:28 PM

Its a Bedford WLG type Andrew and most likely a impressed job originally a delivery van i expect converted for medical use. The Mat is in the UK but my idea here is to show the types in France or photos of models that would have gone with the BEF i think that way we can cover a lot more. Here ara some MorrisCDF 30cwt and Morris CD with a Thornycroft Tartar
cheers
Les

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#18 May1940

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 05:02 PM

Les

It's great to see the pictures whether taken in France or not. As to whether certain vehicle types actually did go to France or not, that can be answered in a number of ways.

I have never seen your second and third pictures before. The Morris 6x4s are some of my favourites and these two pictures bring out the best in both. I have seen pictures of preserved CDFs but I guess there are no CDs left anywhere, sadly.

Andrew
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#19 Rich Payne

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 07:03 PM

Going back to post #1; I would say that in terms of front line units at least, the Norton WD 16H was more numerous than the BSA KM and WM20s, as Nortons were the primary supplier to RAOC during the late 1930s.

However, BSA were a larger company and once they started delivering during 1939, they were producing more than Norton. These machines are more likely to have been with the newly arrived divisions or with 2nd line troops and are therefore perhaps more often seen in photos from the beach areas. There are more Nortons in the 'Phony War' images.
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#20 JCB

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 09:25 AM

Thats interesting , not too well up on the bikes. Its noticeable that the vehicles change as the campaign progresses ,as you say there doesn't seem to be much pre war stuff in the front line units by May. Most of the destroyed trucks inland seem to be 1939/1940 model WD Austins Bedfords Quads etc. Wheras the beach has a bit of everything.

Going back to the Guy mk1 armoured cars another pic has appeared on this thread (posted by MorrisC8)
http://www.ww2talk.c...mour-bef-7.html
so thats two out of the six !
Craig

Edited by JCB, 22 February 2011 - 11:42 AM.

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#21 May1940

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 11:59 PM

Can anyone identify this vehicle? It is destined for the Army troops markings thread.

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=46760&stc=1&d=1299110308

Andrew

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#22 JCB

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 07:00 AM

Not easy ! first thoughts a Fordson 7V but body looks a bit big. Truck behind looks like a ERF.

Edit - yes fairly sure Fordson 7v the rear hubs and door / wings look right. Also fairly sure truck behind is ERF first BEF one I've seen.

Edited by JCB, 03 March 2011 - 09:12 AM.

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#23 morrisc8

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 01:38 PM

Bedford ID Plate.
TRUCK 3 TON 4-WHLD. GS BODY MARK.
Vauxhall Motors LTD. 1939
Luton England
Contract No V.3731
WD No Wt
I bought this Bedford 3 ton plate. it came from the Stalingrad area and i think it is from a BEF Veh that was left in 1940. Any info on the V3731 Contract number might help. Truck has been hit as the Bronze/brass plate is bent and might have been in or near a fire or could be the red/yellow type paint on it, + still has Gray paint on. . Looks like its done a few miles British use then German use then back to the UK.

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Edited by morrisc8, 04 March 2011 - 01:47 PM.
more info

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#24 rewdco

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 04:35 PM

Any info on the V3731 Contract number might help.


Keith,

The census numbers that were allotted for this contract (V3731, Bedford Lorry 3 ton 4x2 G/S OY) were L201246 until L201605. This information comes from the Chilwell list. These census numbers are RASC numbers, and unlike the pre 1940 RAOC numbers they don't tell anything about the issue date.

But I do know that the split up system (different census numbers for RASC and RAOC vehicles) was started at the end of 1939 (when the RASC 4 wheeled vehicles started with the census number 150001) and lasted until approximately December '41 - January '42 (RASC census numbers were almost reaching 1000000 by then, but the 300000 and 400000 blocks had not been used by the RASC).

So "early 1940" is very plausible for census numbers L201246 until L201605!

Hope this information is useful,

Jan
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#25 morrisc8

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 05:11 PM

Keith,

The census numbers that were allotted for this contract (V3731, Bedford Lorry 3 ton 4x2 G/S OY) were L201246 until L201605. This information comes from the Chilwell list. These census numbers are RASC numbers, and unlike the pre 1940 RAOC numbers they don't tell anything about the issue date.

But I do know that the split up system (different census numbers for RASC and RAOC vehicles) was started at the end of 1939 (when the RASC 4 wheeled vehicles started with the census number 150001) and lasted until approximately December '41 - January '42 (RASC census numbers were almost reaching 1000000 by then, but the 300000 and 400000 blocks had not been used by the RASC).

So "early 1940" is very plausible for census numbers L201246 until L201605!

Hope this information is useful,

Jan


Thanks Jan for the help,
i am glad its X RASC. Just a few photos of
Bedford trucks used after the BEF left them. whole units had Bedfords issued to them as well as Morris trucks. Photos from my collection/book.

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Edited by morrisc8, 05 March 2011 - 08:53 AM.
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#26 tommy40

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 08:48 PM

Another metal plate, found on Dunkirk's area in the 90's, which still have his original paint.
I have never tried to get informations about such plates and pieces of trucks and cars are nice...

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#27 rewdco

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 09:32 PM

Tommy,

V3428 is a 1939 contract for 400 Morris Commercial Trucks, 15cwt 4x2 G/S. Allotted census numbers Z397221 until Z397620.

Jan
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#28 morrisc8

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 11:07 PM

Morris 15cwt 4x2 GS. Original photo from my collection and one other Morris ID plate that i have 1940.

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#29 tommy40

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 08:35 AM

Thanks rewdco for your help. Sometimes there are no numbers on plates...

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#30 Rich Payne

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 10:13 AM

Tommy, un-stamped, incomplete or plain wrongly-stamped plates are a recurring problem for vehicle restorers and it was particularly common during the hectic days of 1940 production.

It's clear from the surviving records that the factories were producing flat-out and didn't wait for the allocation of new contracts, they knew that they were going to be paid. Add to this, vehicles which had to go back down the line for rectification and it's not surprising that things got mixed up.

What a shame that these plates don't all include chassis number and WD number - that would really be helpful to us.

Your plates show a typically aged Khaki Green No.3 finish.

Rich
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