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German Use of Allied Aircraft

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#1 Jedburgh22


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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:37 PM

Below is an American Int Document giving details of German arrangements for the salvage of Allied aircraft.

The Germans had a demonstration unit known as Zirkus (Circus) Rosarius named after its commander Theodor Roasaris who formed the unit in 1943.

Aircraft used by this unit included

2 Lockheed P38s
2 Spitfires
North American AT-6 Harvard
2 North American P-51 Mustangs
Hawker Typhoon
2 Republic P-47 Thunderbots
De-Havilland Mosquito
3 Boeing B17s
Bell P-39 Airacobra
Curtis Kittyhawk Mk III
5 Liberators

Most of these aircraft were rebuilt/checked over at the airbase at Rechlin (now an aviation museum)
Luftfahrttechnisches Museum Rechlin e.V.

One of the test pilots at Rechlin flew the following Allied types
Boeing B17 F & G Flying Fortresses
Consolidated B-24 Liberator D, G, & H marks
Avro Lancaster
Bristol Blenheim Mk IV
de Havilland Dragonfly DH.90
Lockheed Lodestar
Martin B26B marauder
Vickers Wellington Mk IV
Bell P-39 Airacobra
Hawker Typhoon Mk IB
Hawker Tempest Mk 5
North American Harvard
North American P51 Mustang
Republic P-47D Thunderbolt
Supermarine Spitfire MkV

His exploits are recounted in the book Luftwaffe Test Pilot - Hans Werner Lerche, (Macdonald & Janes 1980)

Allied aircraft were used operationally by the German Special Duties Unit KG200 under Werner Baumbach (Killed flying a Lancaster in Argentina post-WWII)


[FONT="] [/FONT]

[FONT="]War is the best testing ground for all types of fighting materiel, and this is particularly true of aircraft and their equipment. The Italian conquest of Ethiopia, the Spanish Civil War, and the Sino-Japanese conflict have all provided excellent laboratories for experiment in the design and performance of combat planes. [/FONT]
[FONT="]In the present war, air power has played, and will continue to play, such an important role, that all belligerents are constantly engaged in improving their planes. Construction, speed, maneuverability, range, ceiling, armor, and fire power of aircraft are subject to daily study and change. Since World War I, the character and scope of air warfare has been revolutionized, necessitating vast improvements in design and construction. Nations have approached this problem from different angles with varying results. During peacetime, efforts were made--particularly by the Axis countries--to guard their most important air secrets from potentially hostile powers, although certain revelations could not be avoided when the aircraft were tested in actual battle experience such as the Spanish Civil War. [/FONT]
[FONT="]With the outbreak of World War II, it became vitally important for each belligerent to acquire as complete information as possible with respect to its opponents' planes in order to have the technical knowledge with which to combat them. The Germans were very late in recognizing the importance of information to be obtained from captured planes and equipment. Their plans for a lightning war did not envisage the necessity for keeping up with their opponent's technical developments. The Battle of Britain was the beginning of the lesson that showed them their error, but it was not until 6 months or so later that a formalized procedure for the salvage and examination of crashed and captured enemy aircraft began to be put into effect. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Every officer of the German Air Force who sees an enemy airplane shot down, force land, or crash in his vicinity, is required to report the incident immediately by telephone to the Air Liaison Officer at Division Headquarters, who in turn forwards the information through channels to the Luftgaukommando (German air corps district headquarters). The observing officer can telephone direct to the Luftgaukommando if such communication is available. A German Air Force officer will convey the necessary information by Air Dispatch Letter Service. The report must include identity of reporting unit and of the guard furnished, the location, nationality, and condition of the aircraft, and the location of the crew. [/FONT]
[FONT="]The task of salvage is delegated by the Luftgaukommando usually to the commanding officer of the airdrome area nearest to the location of the plane; he dispatches a first salvage detachment by car. This detachment consists of an officer, a technician, a photographer, and one member of each of the communications and ordnance staffs. [/FONT]
[FONT="]At the scene of the crash, photographs are taken immediately, and the negatives sent to the Luftgaukommando photo section for examination. A preliminary technical report is then prepared for transmission to, and evaluation by, Luftgaukommando Intelligence. This report should contain a description of the plane, including data as to its position, special characteristics, construction, armament and equipment, performance, and purpose. All tactical material and personal documents of the crew should accompany the report. [/FONT]
[FONT="]The member of the technical staff with the detachment will then request a salvage squad from the airdrome to complete the salvage, and this squad will include an engine specialist and additional special personnel. Salvage operations by Army or Air Force Troops are never permitted. Their duty is merely to guard the plane until the arrival of the salvage squad in order to prevent removal of any parts for souvenirs or other purposes. [/FONT]
[FONT="]The flying equipment is salvaged into two groups, signal and flight data being segregated from technical material. All salvaged material is conveyed to the main Air Force station in the area, and from there to the Air Force branch concerned, except that radio equipment is dispatched via the Luftgaukommando to Chief Signal Officer, Air Ministry. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Reports by the airdrome authorities responsible for the salvage operation must immediately be made by telephone or radio to the Air Ministry and Air Staff Intelligence of the Air Force High Command in case of the signal equipment, and to the Chief Equipment Officer on the technical material. Other detailed written reports on the salvage operation, and on the plane and its equipment, are made respectively to the Luftgaukommando and the Chief Signal Officer. [/FONT]
[FONT="]If there is any danger of the aircraft catching fire or being "shot up" by the enemy, all possible efforts must be made immediately to salvage equipment--particularly photographic equipment, maps, and documents--and to transmit the same to the responsible officer, together with a description of the plane from which they were taken, and the precise time and place of crash. [/FONT]
[FONT="]The crew will be made prisoners of war, segregated, interrogated, and disposed of in the usual manner. Any documents in their possession are sent to Luftgaukommando Intelligence immediately. [/FONT]
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#2 sapper


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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:53 PM

back in the early part of the war. A Blenheim came flying low up the Purbeck valley. So low, that we waved to the pilot who promptly machine gunned us.
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#3 Doering


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Posted 22 December 2010 - 04:30 PM

back in the early part of the war. A Blenheim came flying low up the Purbeck valley. So low, that we waved to the pilot who promptly machine gunned us.

Was the intent by the Germans to actually used this allied aircraft in combat?
I can't imagine the logistics in terms of being attacked by their own (wrong identity) or flying the aircraft with inadequate maintenance/parts.
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#4 FiSe


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Posted 22 December 2010 - 06:41 PM

I would say that, those aircraft served for evaluation purposes rather than some surprising attack mission. These were painted in over sized markings and with Yellow noses and undersides to avoid confusion.

Similarly Ju88s used by the RAF were repainted in standard camouflage of the new user, not quite sure if they had Yellow bellies too.

But, there's a story which goes that one of the P-51s was out and about when alarm was raised and off she went chasing formation of B-17s. But they were too far away to make any contact. Don't remember the exact details or whether it's true, hopefully someone on here does.
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#5 Jedburgh22


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Posted 22 December 2010 - 06:45 PM

One spitfire was meant to deploy on a Brandenburgers Mission in North Africa but arrived in theatre too late to deploy, several of the bombers were used on intel missions joining Allied bomber streams, and the B17s did a ferry service into North Africa in 1944-45 (Algeria if I remember right) on a German Intelligence op this was a KG200 Aircraft, KG 200 also operated a couple of Liberators
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#6 sapper


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Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:42 PM

The Purbeck isle valley is a short distance from the coast. The present Jurassic coast. I think they did a sneak reccon
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#7 Wimpy



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Posted 22 December 2010 - 08:13 PM

Similar theme, different sides

Subject: NVAA - Recovered Zero changes Pacific air war


An enemy plane that saved American lives
Published Fall 1997 in Invention & Technology Magazine (Vol. 13, Issue 2)


AT FIRST GLANCE THE PICTURE ABOVE RESEMBLES A photo of a pile of junk. Look closer, however, and you will see a propeller, a wing, and a belly tank. Far from being junk, it is a Japanese “Zero” fighter plane from World War II that went on to be of inestimable value to the United States. Aviation buffs and historians know it as Koga’s Zero, for the name of its pilot, or as the Akutan or Aleutian Zero, for the crash site. The photo was taken in mid-July 1942 by a Navy photographer’s mate named Arthur W Bauman on Akutan Island in Alaska’s remote Aleutian chain.
Koga’s Zero, rebuilt, was the first flyable Zero fighter acquired and tested in the United States. A scant two months after Bauman took the photo, the plane had been shipped 2,800 miles to North Island Naval Air Station in San Diego and repaired, and it was revealing profound military secrets in the air.
The information it yielded was vital to the U.S. war effort because in 1941 and most of 1942, the Zero outflew virtually every enemy fighter it encountered, primarily because of its agility. During the previous several years many Zero pilots had seen aerial combat in China, so unblooded Allied pilots in less maneuverable planes usually regretted any attempt to fight Zeros flown by the experienced Japanese—if they lived long enough.
For example, in April 1942 thirty-six Zeros attacking a British naval base at Colombo, Ceylon (now Sri Lanka), were met by about sixty Royal Air Force aircraft of mixed types, many of them obsolete. Twenty-seven of the RAF planes went down: fifteen Hawker Hurricanes (of Battle of Britain fame), eight Fairey Swordfish, and four Fairey Fulmars. The Japanese lost one Zero.
Five months after America’s entry into the war, the Zero was still a mystery to U.S. Navy pilots. On May 7, 1942, in the Battle of the Coral Sea, fighter pilots from our aircraft carriers Lexington and Yorktown fought the Zero and didn’t know what to call it. Some misidentified it as the German Messerschmitt 109.
A few weeks later, on June 3 and 4, warplanes flew from the Japanese carriers Ryujo and Junyo to attack the American military base at Dutch Harbor in Alaska’s Aleutian archipelago. Japan’s attack on Alaska was intended to draw remnants of the U.S. fleet north from Pearl Harbor, away from Midway Island, where the Japanese were setting a trap. (The scheme ultimately backfired when our Navy pilots sank four of Japan’s first-line aircraft carriers at Midway, giving the United States a major turning-point victory.)
IN THE RAID OF JUNE 4, TWENTY BOMBERS blasted oil storage tanks, a warehouse, a hospital, a hangar, and a beached freighter, while eleven Zeros strafed at will. Chief Petty Officer Makoto Endo led a three-plane Zero section from the Ryujo, whose other pilots were Flight Petty Officers Tsuguo Shikada and Tadayoshi Koga. Koga, a small nineteen-yearold, was the son of a rural carpenter. His Zero, serial number 4593, was light gray, with the imperial rising-sun insignia on its wings and fuselage. It had left the Mitsubishi Nagoya aircraft factory on February 19, only three and a half months earlier, so it was the latest design.
Shortly before the bombs fell on Dutch Harbor that day, soldiers at an adjacent Army outpost had seen three Zeros shoot down a lumbering Catalina amphibian. As the plane began to sink, most of the seven-member crew climbed into a rubber raft and began paddling toward shore. The soldiers watched in horror as the Zeros strafed the crew until all were killed. The Zeros are believed to have been those of Endo, Shikada, and Koga.
After massacring the Catalina crew, Endo led his section to Dutch Harbor, where it joined the other eight Zeros in strafing. It was then (according to Shikada, interviewed in 1984) that Koga’s Zero was hit by ground fire. An Army intelligence team later reported, “Bullet holes entered the plane from both upper and lower sides.”
One of the bullets severed the return oil line between the oil cooler and the engine. As the engine continued to run, it pumped oil from the broken line. A Navy photo taken during the raid shows a Zero trailing what appears to be smoke. It is probably oil, and there is little doubt that this is Zero 4593.
After the raid, as the enemy planes flew back toward their carriers, eight American Curtiss Warhawk P-40s shot down four VaI (Aichi D3A) dive bombers thirty miles west of Dutch Harbor. In the swirling, minutes-long dogfight, Lt. John J. Cape shot down a plane identified as a Zero.
Another Zero was almost instantly on his tail. He climbed and rolled, trying to evade, but those were the wrong maneuvers to escape a Zero. The enemy fighter easily stayed with him, firing its two deadly 20-mm cannon and two 7.7-mm machine guns. Cape and his plane plunged into the sea. Another Zero shot up the P-40 of Lt. Winfield McIntyre, who survived a crash landing with a dead engine.
Endo and Shikada accompanied Koga as he flew his oil-spewing airplane to Akutan Island, twenty-five miles away, which had been designated for emergency landings. A Japanese submarine stood nearby to pick up downed pilots. The three Zeros circled low over the green, treeless island. At a level, grassy valley floor half a mile inland, Koga lowered his wheels and flaps and eased toward a three-point landing. As his main wheels touched, they dug in, and the Zero flipped onto its back, tossing water, grass, and gobs of mud. The valley floor was a bog, and the knee-high grass concealed water.
Endo and Shikada circled. There was no sign of life. If Koga was dead, their duty was to destroy the downed fighter. Incendiary bullets from their machine guns would have done the job. But Koga was a friend, and they couldn’t bring themselves to shoot. Perhaps he would recover, destroy the plane himself, and walk to the waiting submarine. Endo and Shikada abandoned the downed fighter and returned to the Ryujo, two hundred miles to the south. (The Ryujo was sunk two months later in the eastern Solomons by planes from the aircraft carrier Saratoga. Endo was killed in action at Rabaul on October 12, 1943, while Shikada survived the war and eventually became a banker.)
The wrecked Zero lay in the bog for more than a month, unseen by U.S. patrol planes and offshore ships. Akutan is often foggy, and constant Aleutian winds create unpleasant turbulence over the rugged island. Most pilots preferred to remain over water, so planes rarely flew over Akutan. However, on July 10 a U.S. Navy Catalina (PBY) amphibian returning from overnight patrol crossed the island. A gunner named Wall called, “Hey, there’s an airplane on the ground down there. It has meatballs on the wings.” That meant the rising-sun insignia.
The patrol plane’s commander, Lt. William Thies, descended for a closer look. What he saw excited him. Back at Dutch Harbor, Thies persuaded his squadron commander to let him take a party to the downed plane. No one then knew that it was a Zero.
Ens. Robert Larson was Thies’s copilot when the plane was discovered. He remembers reaching the Zero. “We approached cautiously, walking in about a foot of water covered with grass. Koga’s body, thoroughly strapped in, was upside down in the plane, his head barely submerged in the water.
“We were surprised at the details of the airplane,” Larson continues. “It was well built, with simple, unique features. Inspection plates could be opened by pushing on a black dot with a finger. A latch would open, and one could pull the plate out. Wingtips folded by unlatching them and pushing them up by hand. The pilot had a parachute and a life raft.”
Koga’s body was buried nearby. In 1947 it was shifted to a cemetery on nearby Adak Island, and later, it is believed, his remains were returned to Japan.
Thies had determined that the wrecked plane was a nearly new Zero, which suddenly gave it special meaning, for it was repairable. However, unlike U.S. warplanes, which had detachable wings, the Zero’s wings were integral with the fuselage. This complicated salvage and shipping.
Navy crews fought the plane out of the bog. The tripod that was used to lift the engine, and later the fuselage, sank three to four feet into the mud. The Zero was too heavy to turn over with the equipment on hand, so it was left upside down while a tractor dragged it on a skid to the beach and a barge. At Dutch Harbor it was turned over with a crane, cleaned, and crated, wings and all.

When the awkward crate containing Zero 4593 arrived at North Island Naval Air Station, San Diego, a twelve-foot-high stockade was erected around it inside a hangar. Marines guarded the priceless plane while Navy crews worked around the clock to make it airworthy. (There is no evidence the Japanese ever knew we had salvaged Koga’s plane.)
In mid-September Lt. Cmdr. Eddie R. Sanders studied it for a week as repairs were completed. Forty-six years later he clearly remembered his flights in Koga’s Zero. “My log shows that I made twenty-four flights in Zero 4593 from 20 September to 15 October 1942,” Sanders told me. “These flights covered performance tests such as we do on planes undergoing Navy tests. The very first flight exposed weaknesses of the Zero that our pilots could exploit with proper tactics.
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/cid:3.2163414855@web110813.mail.gq1.yahoo.comZero in North Island NAS hangar

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/cid:4.2163414855@web110813.mail.gq1.yahoo.comZero taxis at North Island NAS

“The Zero had superior maneuverability only at the lower speeds used in dogfighting, with short turning radius and excellent aileron control at very low speeds. However, immediately apparent was the fact that the ailerons froze up at speeds above two hundred knots, so that rolling maneuvers at those speeds were slow and required much force on the control stick. It rolled to the left much easier than to the right. Also, its engine cut out under negative acceleration [as when nosing into a dive] due to its float-type carburetor.
“We now had an answer for our pilots who were unable to escape a pursuing Zero. We told them to go into a vertical power dive, using negative acceleration, if possible, to open the range quickly and gain advantageous speed while the Zero’s engine was stopped. At about two hundred knots, we instructed them to roll hard right before the Zero pilot could get his sights lined up.
“This recommended tactic was radioed to the fleet after my first flight of Koga’s plane, and soon the welcome answer came back: ‘It works!’” Sanders said, satisfaction sounding in his voice even after nearly half a century. Thus by late September 1942 Allied pilots in the Pacific theater knew how to escape a pursuing Zero.
“Was Zero 4593 a good representative of the Model 21 Zero?” I asked Sanders. In other words, was the repaired airplane 100 percent?
“About 98 percent,” he replied.
THE ZERO WAS ADDED TO THE U.S. Navy inventory and assigned its Mitsubishi serial number. The Japanese colors and insignia were replaced with those of the U.S. Navy and later the U.S. Army, which also test-flew it. The Navy pitted it against the best American fighters of the time—the P-38 Lockheed Lightning, the P-39 Bell Airacobra, the P-51 North American Mustang, the F4F-4 Grumman Wildcat, and the F4U ChanceVought Corsair—and for each type developed the most effective tactics and altitudes for engaging the Zero.
In February 1945 Cmdr. Richard G. Crommelin was taxiing Zero 4593 at San Diego Naval Air Station, where it was being used to train pilots bound for the Pacific war zone. An SB2C Curtiss Helldiver overran it and chopped it up from tail to cockpit. Crommelin survived, but the Zero didn’t. Only a few pieces of Zero 4593 remain today. The manifold pressure gauge, the air-speed indicator, and the folding panel of the port wingtip were donated to the Navy Museum at the Washington, D.C., Navy Yard by Rear Adm. William N. Leonard, who salvaged them at San Diego in 1945. In addition, two of its manufacturer’s plates are in the Alaska Aviation Heritage Museum in Anchorage, donated by Arthur Bauman, the photographer.
Leonard recently told me, “The captured Zero was a treasure. To my knowledge no other captured machine has ever unlocked so many secrets at a time when the need was so great.” A somewhat comparable event took place off North Africa in 1944—coincidentally on the same date, June 4, that Koga crashed his Zero. A squadron commanded by Capt. Daniel V. Gallery, aboard the escort carrier Guadalcanal, captured the German submarine U-505, boarding and securing the disabled vessel before the fleeing crew could scuttle it. Code books, charts, and operating instructions rescued from U-505 proved quite valuable to the Allies. Captain Gallery later wrote, “Reception committees which we were able to arrange as a result … may have had something to do with the sinking of nearly three hundred U-boats in the next eleven months.” By the time of U-505’s capture, however, the German war effort was already starting to crumble (D-day came only two days later), while Japan still dominated the Pacific when Koga’s plane was recovered.
A classic example of the Koga plane’s value occurred on April 1, 1943, when Ken Walsh, a Marine flying an F4U Chance-Vought Corsair over the Russell Islands southeast of Bougainville, encountered a lone Zero. “I turned toward him, planning a deflection shot, but before I could get on him, he rolled, putting his plane right under my tail and within range. I had been told the Zero was extremely maneuverable, but if I hadn’t seen how swiftly his plane flipped onto my tail, I wouldn’t have believed it,” Walsh recently recalled.
“I remembered briefings that resulted from test flights of Koga’s Zero on how to escape from a following Zero. With that lone Zero on my tail I did a split S, and with its nose down and full throttle my Corsair picked up speed fast. I wanted at least 240 knots, preferably 260. Then, as prescribed, I rolled hard right. As I did this and continued my dive, tracers from the Zero zinged past my plane’s belly.
“From information that came from Koga’s Zero, I knew the Zero rolled more slowly to the right than to the left. If I hadn’t known which way to turn or roll, I’d have probably rolled to my left. If I had done that, the Zero would likely have turned with me, locked on, and had me. I used that maneuver a number of times to get away from Zeros.”
BY WAR’S END CAPT. (LATER Lt. Col.) Kenneth Walsh had twenty-one aerial victories (seventeen Zeros, three Vais, one Pete), making him the war’s fourth-ranking Marine Corps ace. He was awarded the Medal of Honor for two extremely courageous air battles he fought over the Solomon Islands in his Corsair during August 1943. He retired from the Marine Corps in 1962 after more than twenty-eight years of service. Walsh holds the Distinguished Flying Cross with six Gold Stars, the Air Medal with fourteen Gold Stars, and more than a dozen other medals and honors.
How important was our acquisition of Koga’s Zero? Masatake Okumiya, who survived more air-sea battles than any other Japanese naval officer, was aboard the Ryujo when Koga made his last flight. He later co-authored two classic books, Zero and Midway. Okumiya has written that the Allies’ acquisition of Koga’s Zero was “no less serious” than the Japanese defeat at Midway and “did much to hasten our final defeat.” If that doesn’t convince you, ask Ken Walsh.
Jim Rearden, a forty-seven-year resident of Alaska, is the author of fourteen books and more than five hundred magazine articles, mostly about Alaska. Among his books is Koga’s Zero: The Fighter That Changed World War II, which can be purchased for $12.95 plus $4.00 for postage and handling from Pictorial Histories Publishing Company, 713 South Third Street West, Missoula, MT 59801.


THE ZERO WAS JAPAN’S MAIN FIGHTER PLANE THROUGHOUT WORLD War II. By war’s end about 11,500 Zeros had been produced in five main variants. In March 1939, when the prototype Zero was rolled out, Japan was in some ways still so backward that the plane had to be hauled by oxcart from the Mitsubishi factory twenty-nine miles to the airfield where it flew. It represented a great leap in technology.
At the start of World War II, some countries’ fighters were opencockpit, fabric-covered biplanes. A low-wing all-metal monoplane carrier fighter, predecessor to the Zero, had been adopted by the Japanese in the mid-1930s, while the U.S. Navy’s standard fighter was still a biplane. But the world took little notice of Japan’s advanced military aircraft, so the Zero came as a great shock to Americans at Pearl Harbor and afterward.
Lightness, simplicity, ease of maintenance, sensitivity to controls, and extreme maneuverability were the main elements that the designer Jiro Horikoshi built into the Zero. The Model 21 flown by Koga weighed 5,500 pounds, including fuel, ammunition, and pilot, while U.S. fighters weighed 7,500 pounds and up. Early models had no protective armor or self-sealing fuel tanks, although these were standard features on U.S. fighters.
Despite its large-diameter 940-hp radial engine, the Zero had one of the slimmest silhouettes of any World War II fighter. The maximum speed of Koga’s Zero was 326 mph at 16,000 feet, not especially fast for a 1942 fighter. But high speed wasn’t the reason for the Zero’s great combat record. Agility was. Its large ailerons gave it great maneuverability at low speeds. It could even outmaneuver the famed British Spitfire. Advanced U.S. fighters produced toward the war’s end still couldn’t turn with the Zero, but they were faster and could outclimb and outdive it.
Without self-sealing fuel tanks, the Zero was easily flamed when hit in any of its three wing and fuselage tanks or its droppable belly tank. And without protective armor, its pilot was vulnerable.
In 1941 the Zero’s range of 1,675 nautical miles (1,930 statute miles) was one of the wonders of the aviation world. No other fighter plane had ever routinely flown such a distance. Saburo Sakai, Japan’s highest-scoring surviving World War II ace, with sixty-four kills, believes that if the Zero had not been developed, Japan “would not have decided to start the war.” Other Japanese authorities echo this opinion, and the confidence it reflects was not, in the beginning at least, misplaced.
Today the Zero is one of the rarest of all major fighter planes of World War II. Only sixteen complete and assembled examples are known to exist. Of these, only two are flyable: one owned by Planes of Fame, in Chino, California, and the other by the Confederate Air Force, in Midland, Texas.


Note more photos of the Koga/Akutan Zero can be found here.

Edited by Wimpy, 22 December 2010 - 08:25 PM.

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#8 Cobber


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Posted 23 December 2010 - 12:18 AM

Excellent information thanks for posting it.
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#9 ww2ni


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Posted 23 December 2010 - 11:17 AM

I remember reading the paperback KG200 ages ago however I thought this was fiction.

Was there a real KG200? What did they get up to??
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#10 Jedburgh22


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Posted 23 December 2010 - 12:17 PM

There was indeed a real KG200 there were several sub units - one serviced the Eastern Front another operated in Northern Italy, they used a variety or aircraft including Ju 52, Condor, Arado 232 & 432 in a troop carrying role. They also used allied aircraft including Flying Fortresses and Liberators for clandestine agent insertions and landing missions.

Kampfgeschwader 200 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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#11 Kuno


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Posted 23 December 2010 - 12:18 PM

One spitfire was meant to deploy on a Brandenburgers Mission in North Africa but arrived in theatre too late to deploy, several of the bombers were used on intel missions joining Allied bomber streams, and the B17s did a ferry service into North Africa in 1944-45 (Algeria if I remember right) on a German Intelligence op this was a KG200 Aircraft, KG 200 also operated a couple of Liberators

Unfortunately, the said 'Brandenburger Mission' is nothing else than a legend... it did never take place. Further, it is written, that this Spitfire was one of the rare reconaissance-type. I can harldy imagine, how and why the Germans would have brought it to Libya and then to the nearly southernmost part of the Country.... ...btw. the same legendary 'Brandenburger-mission' is also counted to be responsible, why deep inside the Tibesti mountains amongst te native Tubu-people some light skinned blond people exist :D

A B-17 was used by the Germans to supply a weather-station in Libya in 1944. It was intercepted in the landing-procedure by the SDF and damaged... but could return to Greece where it did an emergency landing just short the coast.

There are also "reports" about KG.200 flying such planes to Nigeria. No evidence was found so far...
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#12 Jedburgh22


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Posted 23 December 2010 - 12:32 PM

The exploits of the German SD Squadrons and indeed the German special forces have not had wide exposure outside Germany. German Special Forces included the Brandenburgers, Skorzeny's Jagd Kommandos which included many Brandenburgers post July 1944, the Naval Klein Kampf Verbande which used both mini-subs, manned torpedos and assault swimmers, the Germans also used hybrid SF units such as Sonderverban Flemy which fomented the Arab revolt in Iraq.
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#13 Jedburgh22


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Posted 23 December 2010 - 12:35 PM

I beg to differ with you on that Kuno, the mission did deploy - I will post some details on this from German sources in the new year when I can access my material on it in London.
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#14 Kuno


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Posted 24 December 2010 - 12:55 AM

...but please don't refer to Helmuth Spaeter or Franz Kurowski in this subject ;-)
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#15 TiredOldSoldier


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Posted 24 December 2010 - 06:26 AM

What would "Brandenburgers" be doing wth a single seater, and a relatively short ranged one at that?

The Germans and Italians operated operated a number of captured allied aircraft, one well documented one is a P38G that pilot Angelo Tondi used to soot down a Liberator near Rome before the plane was written off due to corrosion problems from the Italian fuel.
AFAIK none of the Spitfires recovered by the Italians were repaired to flyable conditions though the pictures show limited damage. Closest match would be "recon variant" apparently landed near Pisa on Febbruary 9 1941, I don't have a picture of that one, does anyone have more info?.

The Italians did use a Spitfire for "covert" missions but that was a after the war when a Mk IX made some flights over Albania and Yougoslavia.

Edited by TiredOldSoldier, 24 December 2010 - 06:58 AM.

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