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London's Pubs during WW2


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#1 Kieron Hill

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 08:53 AM

When I was at the National Memorial Arboretum a forum
Member (Mike) asked me to look at the misplaced/redundant
War Memorial section and I came across an interesting
Plaque in memory to employees of the brewery Watney
Combe & Reid Co Ltd, there are 12 pubs listed on this
Particular plaque and it got me thinking.

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1/ How pubs were bombed during the raids on London are
There any figures?

2/ Did any of these pubs get rebuilt after the war and are
They still running today?

3/ Is there more of a story behind these bomb pubs below for
An example Mrs Florence A Hearn, did she have husband, did
He survive the war or was he on active service, KIA etc…?

A little about Watney Combe & Reid Co Ltd can be found
Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watney_Combe_&_Reid

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If any one lives in London maybe in these particular areas
Do they have something on the local history of WW2 that
Might mention something about these pubs?


Jack of Newbury, Kensal Road
Mr & Mrs William Bond

Goat in Boots Fulham
Desire A C Corteel

Hertford Arms, Mayfair
William H Duckham

Pitts Head Mayfair
Mrs Florence A Hearn

Goats & Kids, Battersea
Henry Howell

Portland Arms, Bloomsbury
Mr & Mrs John Kerns

Star & Garter Rotherhithe
Mrs Charlotte Lindley

Falcon, Bethnal Green
John J Turner

Red Lion, Clapton
Phillip Wadling

Load of Hay Greenford
Mr & Mrs Sydney G Walton

Ordance Arms Woolwich
Walter G Williams

Coach & Horses Bow
Thomas E & Miss Irene Yearsley
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#2 James Daly

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 09:01 AM

Interesting subject. I've always been interested in pub history but I've never really had the time to go into it in depth.

A good place to start would be the relevant trade directories - during the war you're probably looking at Kellys. Electoral registers might be worth a look as well as they will show all adults living at the address. And if the Government would get their act together and release the 1939 'census' that would be useful too! Local records offices will have records about licensing too.

Particular Breweries have probably got records too, considering most have been succesively taken over their archives will be with either the succesor companies or in a local records office. Access to Archives and the National Register of Archives on the National Archives website should help with that.

There is an interesting website about Portsmouth Pubs here: The Pubs of Portsmouth
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#3 von Poop

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 09:05 AM

A bombed Pompey pub on this thread:
http://www.ww2talk.c...pub-bombed.html

Searching this site on there for 'bombed' revealed a few more:
The Pubs of Portsmouth
(Edit - cross-posted with James above)

One turned up on Lostpubs for London searching 'bomb':

King Arthur

1945 Destroyed by a flying bomb. Replaced by The Clock House.

Sure a recent book on the V2s I read had some detail of hits on pubs too - will have a shufti.

Edited by von Poop, 13 April 2010 - 09:05 AM.
.

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#4 von Poop

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 09:33 AM

Here we go -

"At 9:15 on 19 November, when the bars of The Crooked Billet in Southborough Lane, Bromley, were crowded with Sunday evening drinkers. A V-2 in the car park destroyed both the public house and surrounding premises, so that 23 people were killed"
(Crooked Billet later rebuilt as 'The Beckets')

"26 December .. The Prince of Wales, on the corner of Mackenzie Road & Holloway Road, which was crowded on that Holiday evening ... At 9.26 PM a rocket burst in the concrete roadway just outside, causing two craters one 40 feet across and 12 feet deep, the other 10 feet by 4 feet. ... ... ... The centre of the devastation ... was the Prince of Wales itself, for the cellar, normally the safest place in any building had become a death trap. It had been in use as a bar, and was crowded with drinkers, nearly all of whom were killed or badly injured. [Grimly 6AM 30 hours later, the casualty total was at] 64 killed, 86 seriously injured, 182 lightly injured and 4 still trapped."

An Essex V2:
"at Rottendon, 40 yds from the village pub, The Bell, which escaped with shattered windows, though two people were slightly hurt"

Back to London:
Mention of an unnamed pub damaged when a V2 hit the Plessey factory followed by
"Another public house destroyed ... was The Dick Turpin, the licensee, who was killed, being famous for sending a gift each month to 'regulars' now in the forces"

Brief mention of further London pubs destroyed or damaged:
"The George, Hayes ... & The White Horse Inn at Chislehurst, were both damaged within 4 hours on 9 February 1945, and The Bickley Arms, Chislehurst, joined the melancholy list on 26 March, the last pub in England to receive the Germans' attentions."
(Wonder which was the very first)

All the above quoted from Norman Longmate's 'Hitler's Rockets', a pretty engaging book.
From what he implies, the records of what exactly was destroyed in London were pretty well kept and thorough - no doubt someone knows how to access them better.
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#5 CL1

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 02:13 PM

VP
excellent thank you

The Bricklayers Arms, Letchmore Heath.Hertfordshire

There are a few casualties on CWGC who died on 26/9/1940 at the above pub.

fairly close to a number of airfields and factories Radlett/Hatfield and almost on top of Elstree airfield.

Well before the V2 though.Assumed bombed
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#6 CL1

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 03:14 PM

Kieron

below from psywar.org member
http://www.ww2talk.c...w-did-fare.html

My grandparents' house was destroyed during the Blitz in Greenford, north-west London. My grandmother was staying with a relative that night, so thankfully no casualties.

If I have the location correct it was on what is now called Ruislip Road, at the junction of the Greenford Road. There's a Lloyds-TSB bank on the bombsite now.

My grandparents moved into a prefab after the war and were later rehoused in a council house in the 1960's - they preferred the prefab!

More distressing for Greenford residents was the destruction of the local pub called "The Load of Hay" - I believe there were a number of people killed.
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#7 Kieron Hill

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 09:44 PM

Cheers CL1 I have spent the last 2-3 hours entering
all the names on the plaque into CWGC site, very interesting
reading. Pyswar has got the name of the road right Ruislip Road
and the date of the bombing was the 25th Sept 1940.

I also found out that two of the landlords were Air Raid Wardens
and one was a Fire Guard, I am guessing that a landlord of
a pub was seen as being a pillar in the community and
maybe it was a familiar role for a landlord.

9 of the pubs were bombed in the height of the Blitz
1940 - 41 and 3 I would guess were victims of the
V1 - V2 bombs later on in the war. I posted a thread
with a google map showing V1/V2 bomb sites I'll see
if any of these pubs match the positions on the map.

Star & Garter Rotherhithe - Bombed 7th September 1940
Mrs Charlotte Lindley

Portland Arms, Bloomsbury- Bombed 24th September 1940
Mr & Mrs John Kerins

Load of Hay Greenford - Bombed 25th September 1940
Mr & Mrs Sydney G Walton

Jack of Newbury, Kensal Road - Bombed 2nd October 1940
Mr & Mrs William Bond

Goat in Boots Fulham - Bombed 19th October 1940
Desire A C Corteel

Hertford Arms, Mayfair - Bombed 20th October 1940
William H Duckham

Pitts Head Mayfair - Bombed 16th November 1940
Mrs Florence A Hearn

Coach & Horses Bow - Bombed 20th April 1941
Thomas E & Miss Irene Yearsley

Falcon, Bethnal Green - Bombed 20th April 1941
John J Turner

Ordance Arms Woolwich - Bombed 29th January 1944
Walter G Williams

Red Lion, Clapton - Bombed 31st July 1944
Phillip Waddling

Goats & Kids, Battersea - Bombed 27th January 1945

Henry Howell

Edited by Kieron Hill, 13 April 2010 - 10:16 PM.

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#8 CL1

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 10:05 PM

Excellent Kieron
the post before about the Bricklayers Arms in Letchmore Heath
I will try to find out more
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#9 Mike L

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 10:33 PM

Keiron,
Interesting thread, will follow this one and see if I can add anything as several V1s and 2s fell in my local area (OK we are Essex but this part is in Greater London).
Adam, I have a feeling the Plessey factory was in Ilford and there was a Dick Turpin pub in Newbury Park. Again will see what I can find when time permits (still doing the plaque thing!)

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#10 von Poop

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 09:48 AM

Ilford seems to have had an uncommonly high amount of V2 pounding Mike.

Saw this on another forum cited as a pub in Brum, WW2 period:
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WW2 London bomb maps (link inside!)!)

Anybody know for sure where it is?

Had a mooch through IWM Collections for pics:
Overall view of the Prince of Wales incident mentioned above:
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DESCRIPTION:
Aerial view from the north-west of the damage resulting from a V2 rocket missile which exploded in Mackenzie Road, Islington, London N7, England on the evening of 26 December 1944. Clearance work is still in progress on the site at which sixty-eight people were killed, eighty-six severely injured and one hundred and eighty-two slightly injured. 20 buildings were completely wrecked, including the 'Prince of Wales' public house where many of the casualties occurred.


Another Brum one (Sorry Kieron, drifting off London again):
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DESCRIPTION:
Men and women walk past 'Ye Olde Nelson' public house on the corner of Temple Row and Bull Street in Birmingham. The pub has been slightly damamged by an air raid that destroyed the buildings that once stood next to it on Temple Row.


Further drifting... WW1 London:
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DESCRIPTION:
A general view of the damage to the Eaglet public house, on the corner of Seven Sisters Road, London, following an air raid. A 50 kilo bomb was dropped during a raid on the night of 29- 30 September 1917. Timber and debris litters the street, and wooden blinds hang broken from the windows. In the centre of the photograph can be seen a pile of beer barrels which have slipped down from their shelving.
FURTHER INFORMATION:
The original caption reads: A 50 kilo bomb had struck the pavement immediately at the foot of the building, penetrated obliquely into the pavement and exploded there, completely wrecking the ground floor and the basement, but leaving the upper storeys comparatively undamaged. Forty or fifty people from the upper floors had taken refuge in the rear portion of the basement and of these four were killed and 32 injured. If the bomb had struck the building or fallen a few feet away from it these people who had taken refuge in the portion of the building most likely to afford safety would probably have escaped injury.


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#11 Kieron Hill

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 07:48 PM

Von seeing I am adopted brummie now I found
them very interesting...thanks for postiong.
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#12 LesCM19

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 10:15 AM

Posted Image

The Eaglet today

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All quiet on the Lincolnshire front.
Perhaps too quiet
...

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#13 geoff501

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 12:42 PM

Geoff's Search engine only returns 3 hits for public house
Over a hundred if you enter a space followed by inn followed by a comma.
(this rejects QUINN etc)

Guess there could be a few more like "died at The Goat and Compass, Foundry Lane", etc.

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The WW2 Commonwealth Casualty Search Engine:
http://www.hut-six.c.../search39-47.php

"Well, the most important thing that was new was the idea of URI -- or URL. The idea that any piece of information anywhere should have an identifier, which will not only identify it, but allow you to get hold of it. That idea was the basic clue to the universality of the Web. That was the only thing I insisted upon." Tim Berners-Lee.





#14 CL1

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 07:26 PM

Geoff's Search engine only returns 3 hits for public house
Over a hundred if you enter a space followed by inn followed by a comma.
(this rejects QUINN etc)

Guess there could be a few more like "died at The Goat and Compass, Foundry Lane", etc.


thanks Geoff

checked them out and there are a few in London

The Sun (found 16 casualties) not sure of the figure quoted below

BBC - WW2 People's War - War-Time Shepherd's Bush

Sadly one Sunday evening The Sun in Askew Road suffered a direct hit ten minutes before closing time and 60 people died the only survivor being the pet canary.

Edited by CL1, 28 April 2010 - 07:33 PM.

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#15 LesCM19

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 11:30 PM

Goat In Boots PH, still there, can't get a very good angle on streetview.
Attached File  Goat in Boots.JPG   126.78K   6 downloads
Other Central London Pubs mentioned, think they have gone...
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All quiet on the Lincolnshire front.
Perhaps too quiet
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#16 geoff501

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 07:42 AM


Over a hundred if you enter a space followed by inn followed by a comma.


Replace inn with arms for a few more...
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The WW2 Commonwealth Casualty Search Engine:
http://www.hut-six.c.../search39-47.php

"Well, the most important thing that was new was the idea of URI -- or URL. The idea that any piece of information anywhere should have an identifier, which will not only identify it, but allow you to get hold of it. That idea was the basic clue to the universality of the Web. That was the only thing I insisted upon." Tim Berners-Lee.





#17 Kieron Hill

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:03 PM

Very interesting guys keep it coming...Cheers
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#18 ChrisR

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 08:09 AM

A couple of Pubs in London that were on the receiving end of a bomb that didn't go off include-
The White Horse near Soho -
Photo of it today here - White Horse, Soho, London pub guide | fancyapint?
Posted Image
And The Cricketers on Mitcham Green got one 22/23rd Sep 1940 -
Photo here - http://farm3.static...._127a3b8052.jpg
Notice the Fire Station is still next door.
In Lt Col Wakeling's book 'The Danger of UXBs" it says -
"Another bomb, a 500 Kg, fell through the Cricketers Arms at Mitcham and penetrated to a depth of 28 feet. The pub was adjacent to the Fire Brigade HQ and the Town Hall and its presence also interupted traffic between Reigate and Brighton. Captain Charles Coulton Stewart remained on site for two days, even though he had been advised to take sick leave as he was on the verge of a mental breakdown due to strain and overwork. He was awarded the George Medal for his devotion to duty."
I believe I read recently the pub had another connection with BD in that its landlord before the war(?) went into Bomb Disposal.
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#19 Driver-op

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 08:53 AM

Jack Straw's Castle on Hampstead Heath was destroyed by a land mine. (Large ruddy bomb on a parachute), but I don't know the date. It was replaced and now flats I believe. With regard to Plessey in Ilford, because of their import war-work a lot of the factory was moved underground into the uncompleted Central Line which runs under Ilford. You could smell it most clearly coming out of the large air-vents at Gants Hill.
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#20 CL1

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 05:30 PM

Rural location a few miles from Hatfield and Radlett

Civilian IRENE HILDA EVANS

Civilian War Dead
who died age 15
on 26 September 1940
Daughter of Mr. and Mrs. G. W. Evans, of Clarendon Cottage, Letchmore Heath. Died at The Bricklayers Arms, Letchmore Heath.
Remembered with honour


Civilian LAURA JONES

Civilian War Dead
who died age 48
on 26 September 1940
at The Bricklayers Arms, Letchmore Heath.
Remembered with honour
WATFORD, RURAL DISTRICT

1940 photo with caption below
Getty Images - Unsupported browser detected
Major Sir Jocelyn Lucas (1889 - 1980, front left), Master of the Aldenham Harriers, out cubbing in Letchmore Heath, Hertfordshire during World War II, 5th October 1940. On the left is the wreckage of the Bricklayers' Arms pub, which was bombed a few days earlier. (Photo by Hulton Archive/Getty Images)

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#21 Vitesse

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 06:29 PM

Again drifting ...

This is (or rather was) the Bear Inn, on Bear Flat in Bath

Posted Image

If you've seen the sequence of film with Harry Patch sitting in a car discussing his work with the ARP in Bath during the Baedeker Raids, The Bear was the building he was referring to.

Here's what the other side of Bear Flat looked like after the Luftwaffe had a go at it:

Posted Image

A modern pub - also called The Bear - stands on the site of the original today:

The Bear, Bath | Pub | Cafe | Restaurant | www.bearbath.co.uk

BBC - WW2 People's War - The Bath Blitz
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#22 Jedburgh22

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 06:37 PM

The Coach & Horses in Soho one of my old watering holes and famous for Jeffrey Barnard's Column in the press as well as cartoons in Private Eye, had the same landlord Norman Ballan from 1943 until he retired a couple of years ago - the interior of the pub was pretty much the same from WWII onwards!
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#23 Vitesse

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 06:41 PM

"Jeff bin in?"
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#24 richardperou

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 08:47 PM

"The Queen" Queens Road Teddington. A V1 hit the shop on the opposite corner but the pub opened again that evening due to the efforts of the US army band that whoes local it was. I was there.
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#25 kiwigeordie

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 01:27 AM

I like the way one London brewery modified its advertising slogan on the walls of its pubs during the Blitz.
"Take Courage, Come Inside."
Pete
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#26 Pete Wood

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:29 AM

Not sure if anyone has mentioned the Phoenix Arms, 24 East Smithfield.

Frank Daines, the licencee, was killed. His wife, daughter, and Thomas Hall, were also killed.

The Pub (linked to a Jack the Ripper suspect) is not listed on the CWGC records - merely the address.
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#27 Paul Reed

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:42 PM

Blimey Pete - we've not seen you for a while! Welcome back!
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#28 Pete Wood

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 09:32 PM

Blimey Pete - we've not seen you for a while! Welcome back!


Thank you, Paul.

Been a little busy of late....

1 Finished transcribing all WW2 London air raid casualties (killed and wounded)

2 Nearly finished all property damaged in London air raids

3 Doing research for WDYTYA, concerning WW1 and WW2 air raids on UK

4 Pretty much finished WW1 UK air raid casualties (Going live on FindMyPast in the near future)

5 New teaching role in South London

I hear you are also working hard. It would be fun to catch up with you, one day, Paul.
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