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Sunderland / Flyingboat photos.


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#1 James S

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 08:14 PM

Some photos of Sunderlands as asked for by Will. (Aviator 84).

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The production line at Shorts Belfast.

Not sure where I got these from or who holds copyright on them at the moment.
The aircraft under tow froman ex RAF airman who was over at lough Erne in the early 1950's when training took place on the Lough , aircraft coming over on detachment from the mainland.

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The aircraft shown lost a float on landing , I have another photo of her somewhere (same one used by John Evans in his book "Flying Boat Queen II" ).
Airmen went out onto the opposite wing to counterbalance the floatless to keep it out of the water and the aircraft was towed slowly back to the shelter at Archdale.
The photo above shows her at Pembroke Dock.
Worth looking at the beaching gear, theses wheels had ro be attached when the aircraft was in the water , large heavy and akward , especially hateful in cold weather.
The beaching trolly has to go under the stern trailing edge of the planeing bottom, this meant that the aircraft was beached stern first.

The difference between the engines in the "View from co pilots seat" - Peagasus XXII's , on the post war aircraft P. & W. 1830 which delivered much more power as well as props which could be feathered.

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The airmen are from 201 squadron Standing on the bow is Derek Martin.
He told me how he was sent "South" to visit interned aircrew in the Curragh, his hotel room was raided by Irish Police and Army and he was escorted over the border - they musdt have thoguht he was doing more than visiting !

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The view from the Co-pilots seat.

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The "office".

Edited by James S, 09 April 2009 - 10:03 AM.

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#2 James S

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 09:24 PM

Above PP117 from 201 Squadron - after she had her port float damaged as a result of a heavy landing.

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There ia another photo somewhere of the crew out on her St'board wing .
This one is from John Evans a well known authority on flyingboats , John hails from Pembroke Dock in Wales - this is from his book "The Sunderland- Flying Boat Queen - Vol. 2 ." (Paterchurch Publications. 1983).

Edited by James S, 09 March 2009 - 12:27 PM.

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#3 Grounded

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 09:27 PM

Great nostalgic photographs James, thanks for showing them. How come the squadron codes are on some of them, were they pre ordered or are they re furbished aircraft?

Edited by Grounded, 09 March 2009 - 11:09 PM.

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#4 Smudger Jnr

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 09:31 PM

It really makes you appreciate how large the factory floor was at Shorts when you see the size of the aircraft and then just how many were being constructed in the works area!

Great photographs of a Wonderful Flying Boat!

Regards
Tom
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#5 warhawk

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 09:34 PM

Good pictures.


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#6 James S

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Posted 08 March 2009 - 09:39 PM

If you look at the factory photos and that of ther beached aircraft - the same mode of transportation , it is probable that each aircraft arrived at its operational squadron with its own beaching gear inside the aircraft.
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#7 militarycross

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 12:31 AM

Well done, James. Some great photos which I look forward to sharing with a chum soon.

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#8 U311reasearcher

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 11:24 AM

Great pics James!
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#9 cally

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 08:43 PM

Three old photographs that I have of the Sunderland that I thought might be of interest along with a couple of postcards and a picture of one used in Korea...

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#10 Smudger Jnr

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 08:52 PM

I came upon this Sunderland whilst on holiday with friends in Florida. More aeroplane pictures on the thread Fantasy of Flight.

Just found the history of the plane.


Fantasy of Flight's Short Sunderland

Regards
Tom

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#11 James S

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 10:13 PM

Tom , the Sunderland you saw is an Ex 422 aircraft , it operated from Lough Erne in 1944 - I have posted up a few photos of some gents I know who managed to get a look around her - when they produced their logbooks and showed they had flown on her the owner was more than willing to take them out on the water to see her.

Edward Hulton owned her and he poured a fortune into her , rather unwisely so.

Cally the big bird in your post is " a cousin" of the Sunderland - "Shetland" , the type never went into production , thanks for posting up the photos for me she really was a "Queen" - a wonderful aircraft.

Edited by James S, 19 March 2009 - 08:24 PM.

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#12 Smudger Jnr

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 07:54 AM

James,

How about the Japanese 'Sunderland' the Kawanishi H8K.

This did for the Japanese what the Sunderland did for the Allies.

I still love the lines of the Sunderland though!

EMILY FLYING BOAT

Kawanishi H8K (Emily) - History, Specifications and Pictures - World Military Aircraft


Kawanishi H8K - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards
Tom
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#13 James S

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 10:12 AM

The Japanese aircraft is certainly not unlike her Tom but not an aircraft I would profess to know a lot about - would be aware of her but that would be about it.

The nature of the flying boat does not make them a race horse and when faced with a well armed and fast fighter , the FB ( no matter how well armed) was at a disadvantage.
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#14 Smudger Jnr

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 06:55 PM

James et al,

Just found this rather interesting piece about Wasp engined Sunderlands.

Sunderland Mark V

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A Sunderland Mark V operated by No. 461 Squadron RAAF


The next production version was the Sunderland Mark V, which evolved out of crew concerns over the lack of power of the Pegasus engines. The weight creep (partly due to the addition of radar) that afflicted the Sunderland had resulted in running the Pegasus engines at combat power as a normal procedure and the overburdened engines had to be replaced regularly.
Australian Sunderland crews suggested that the Pegasus engines be replaced by Pratt & Whitney R-1830-9OB Twin Wasp engines. The 14-cylinder engines provided 895 kW (1,200 hp) each and were in use on RAF Consolidated Catalinas and Douglas Dakotas, making logistics and maintenance straightforward.
Two Mark IIIs were taken off the production lines in early 1944 and fitted with the American engines. Trials were conducted in early 1944 and the conversion proved all that was expected. The new engines (and propellors) provided greater performance with no real penalty in range. In particular, a Twin Wasp Sunderland could stay airborne if two engines were knocked out on the same wing while, in similar circumstances, a standard Mark III would steadily lose altitude.
Production was switched to the Twin Wasp version and the first Mark V reached operational units in February 1945. Defensive armament fits were similar to those of the Mark III, but the Mark V was equipped with new centimetric ASV Mark VI C radar that had been used on some of the last production Mark IIIs as well.
One hundred and fifty-five Sunderland Mark Vs were built and another 33 Mark IIIs were converted to Mark V specification. With the end of the war, large contracts for the Sunderland were cancelled and the last of these great flying boats was delivered in June 1946, with a total production of 749 aircraft.


Extract from Wiki.

Short Sunderland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Regards
Tom
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#15 James S

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 08:48 PM

It made her a totally new aircraft - the Pegasus was underpowered and could not be feathered , three engines could not get her off nor could they keep her iup if she was loaded.
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#16 James S

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 11:10 AM

F/lt. Eddy Edwards took this Catalina up to Enniskillen in the Summer of 1943 it was moored for a week in Enniskillen just below the West Bridge - all part of a nation wide fund raising effort .
People were charged a shilling a time for a look inside the catalina.
Sgt Ray Hartshorn was the man who "took the money at the door".
I will have to look up her number - I have a note of it somewhere.
The officers from 131 OTU were "enlisted" to take part in a number of events in theTyrone and Fermanagh area , church fairs , local auctions , parades , talks etc.
For me this story was one of those moments when names came together ray wrote to me having been on 201 and later 202 Squadrons - before moving to 131 as an instructor - he mentioend the fund raisng catalina and a few months later EE mentioned the same thing ,the photo came from him.

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Edited by James S, 20 March 2009 - 01:21 PM.

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#17 Smudger Jnr

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 01:04 PM

James,

What a fantastic photo! The Catalina looks so out of place there, very surreal.

Regards
Tom
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#18 James S

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 01:25 PM

This was one of the Amphibious models which had an undercarriage built into the hull.
Eddy didn't like them as the range was limited - if you look carefully between the wing float struts you can just make out the wheel sitting above the waterline.
All in all not a popular version of the Catalina. (I think the number was FP183 but will have to check it).
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#19 Smudger Jnr

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 01:36 PM

James,

If you had not mentioned it I would have overlooked the wheel showing through the float struts!

Regards
Tom
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#20 James S

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 12:16 AM

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Another cat . 240 Squadron as far as I am aware. circa 1941.
This girl is fully bombed up , and her cockpit is covered.

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From what I can see L/240 is in the background.
This is a close up of her - this mirrored image reflected from the Lough is I think really atmospheric - she too is bombed up and "ready for the off".
The nature of the wing flaot retraction gear is really very clever - the float is retracted upwards on a screw thread , the "triangle" fits into and forms part of the undersurface of the wing the thread retracts into the wionf only to appear again when the flaots a re lowered - the float become the edge of the wing when in flight.
These aircraft are moored just off the slipway - the same view today as has been evidenced elsewhere - has not changed in the slightest , the odd jet ski and fishing boat are all that pass now.

The Cat could be stall landed , built like a boot she could take it - the Sunderland
was more vunerable to damage on landing and had to be put down with a degree of respect.
With one engine shut down the cat. could crawl along just above stall speed for the better part of 24 hours.

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A few years later another Calalina - the change in the colour scheme for Coastal boats can be seen , white has been taken up .
I think this is a 131 OTU Catalina - sooner him than me .
The detail on the pinncae boat is worth looking at the radio wires and the life raft.

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HMS Taku from L "The last Stranraer" , March 1941.

Edited by James S, 23 March 2009 - 12:41 AM.

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#21 Wimpy

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:07 PM

Found this interesting picture in my childhood scrapbook of everything aeronautical!!

Thought you might like to see it in this thread.

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(;)if you squint a lot you can just make out a Ju88 with a Bf109 on top!!!:huh:)
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#22 Smudger Jnr

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:43 PM

Wimpy,

A very early Mystel combination!!

Regards
Tom
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#23 James S

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 09:08 PM

If memory serves me right Don Bennet of Pathfinder fame had something to do with this odd combination aircraft.
See what you mean Whimpy - the JU88 like tail not sure about the 109 crazy looking outfit.
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#24 James S

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 10:50 AM

Looked this out for Juan this Am , something which I had been searching for amongest others.

I think , not 100% sure but it may be that this was developed the wrong way round - it just does not "look right to me".
( I am almost sure I have sen this photo - "the oter way round".)

There is a tint of illusion in this one , look at it and you can see it as either flying towards you or away from you.
A 202 Squaron catalina over the med. before they moved up to Lough Erne.

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#25 ramacal

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 09:48 PM

Does anyone remember this report about a Sunderland found in Pembroke in 2007. I wonder what happened about it's recovery? I can't seem to find anything on the matter since.

BBC NEWS | Wales | South West Wales | Lotto boost to raise flying boat
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#26 ramacal

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 09:53 PM

Just found something and a bit of video footage from the "Wreck Detectives"

Pembroke Dock Sunderland Trust - 01646 623 425

(I remember it because of the lovely Miranda Krestovnikoff, one of the presenters).

And of course, during WW2, Pembroke Dock was the largest Sunderland Flying boat base in the World.

Edited by ramacal, 27 March 2009 - 10:08 PM.

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#27 ramacal

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 10:00 PM

And another link from Channel 4, which showed the program.

Wreck Detectives 2004 from Channel 4
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#28 James S

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 12:08 AM

An engine was raised, John Evans who was consulted on it is one of the best read men you will find on things Sunderland related.
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#29 Smudger Jnr

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 09:52 AM

Looked this out for Juan this Am , something which I had been searching for amongest others.

I think , not 100% sure but it may be that this was developed the wrong way round - it just does not "look right to me".
( I am almost sure I have sen this photo - "the oter way round".)

There is a tint of illusion in this one , look at it and you can see it as either flying towards you or away from you.
A 202 Squaron catalina over the med. before they moved up to Lough Erne.

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That is a wonderful photo and as you say the optical illusion effect is fascinating.

Regards
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#30 James S

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Posted 03 April 2009 - 01:10 AM

One gent who flew these on ops ovber the Indian Ocean told me that they used to close one engine down and just amble along on one just above stalling speed endurance wise they could stay up for almost a day.
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