Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Wittmann question?


  • Please log in to reply
53 replies to this topic

#1 canuck

canuck

    Token Colonial

  • Registered Users
  • 2,723 posts

Posted 21 February 2009 - 02:28 AM

I visited the Canadian cemetery at Bretteville sur Laize a few years ago and now realize that I was likely very close to the location where M. Wittmann's Tiger was knocked out on August 8th, 1944. By my estimate, using the general references I can find, the Tiger was destroyed within 400m (NNE) of the present day cemetery. Can anyone offer any more precise info?

To my English friends, this is motivated only by curiosity. I have no desire to re-open the Ekins/Radley-Walter debate!
  • 0
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

Mark Twain

#2 militarycross

militarycross

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,001 posts

Posted 21 February 2009 - 03:07 AM

Tim
Here's where Wittmann is now.
phil

Attached Files


  • 0
:poppy: The face of Sacrifice is a Mother's Face -- streaked with tears.

#3 WotNoChad?

WotNoChad?

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 472 posts

Posted 21 February 2009 - 04:22 AM

Cor, this is a good one... does any of this help?

Posted Image

On 8th August at St Aignan de Cramesnil, while he was in charge of 3 Troop, ‘A’Squadron, Lord Boardman and his troop were able to knock out three German Tiger tanks from their position in an orchard overlooking a valley. Killed in one of these Tigers, was the German tank ace Michael Wittmann with over 130 tank ‘kills’ to his credit.
source: http://www.sharpshoo...letter 2003.pdf

British Firefly crew observed advancing Tigers and opened fire at when Tigers were some 800m away...
Michael Wittmann and his crew was killed in action on August 8th of 1944, at Gaumesnil near Cintheaux and were buried in an unmarked grave. In March of 1983, the unmarked field grave of Tiger #007's crew was discovered during the construction of the road
and was excavated. It was possible to identify the remains by Wittmann's dental records and Heinrich Reimers's (driver) identification tag.
source: Achtung Panzer! - Michael Wittmann!

Michael Wittmann and his crew had been buried nearby by a group of local civilians soon after the battle, and thanks to the research of Monsieur Jean Paul Pallud* during 1981-82, the grave was finally discovered at Gaumesnil beside the main Caen-Falaise road.
source: panzerace.net | michael wittmann biography

The killing shots have long been thought to have come from a Sherman Firefly of ‘3 Troop’, A Squadron, 1st Northamptonshire Yeomanry (commander - Sergeant Gordon; gunner - Trooper Joe Ekins), which was positioned in a wood called Delle de la Roque at approximately 12:47. on the advancing Tigers' right flank
source: Michael Wittmann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Canadian Army Survey Establishment map showing lay of the land at the time;

Posted Image

The 12th SS Vol:2 By Hubert Meyer goes into great detail about Wittmann's demise as well as more modern details of local's recollections of where it may have occurred. It can be read at: The 12th SS Volume Two: The History ... - Google Book Search
The same publisher does 2 volumes on Wittmann which probably go into even greater detail; Michael Wittman and the Waffen SS ... - Google Book Search


* Worth a google for books he's written.

Edited by WotNoChad?, 21 February 2009 - 04:49 AM.

  • 0

#4 Drew5233

Drew5233

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 25,540 posts
  • LocationLeeds, West Yorkshire

Posted 21 February 2009 - 10:53 AM

There is a rather good article in ATB's Ruckmarsch about this:

There were three Tigers of the Abteilung staff which took part in the battle on August 8 were commanded by SS-Haupsturmfuhrer Michael Whittmann, SS-Untersturmfuhrer Helmut Dollinger (Signals Officer) and SS-Hauptscharfuhrer Hans Hoflinger (Ordnance Officer).

On the morning of August 8, the eight available Tigers of Schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101 moved forward and assembled near Cintheaux, 40 kilometres north of Falaise. When at around mid-day a aircraft flew overhead several times dropping coloured flares. SS-Oberfuhrer Kurt Meyer, the 12. SS-Panzer-Division Commander, decided to launch the operation immediately. The attack started off northwards with the panzers leading followed by the panzergrenadiers. Five Tigers attacked across the fields to the right of the Falaise-Caen road and two on the left. It wa about 12.30pm when the leading Togers passed the hamlet of Gaumesnil moving northwards.

The haste to begin the attack had been such that no proper reconnaissance had been made so that the unsuspecting Tigers presented their right flanks to the Shermans of the 1st Northamptonshire Yeomanry whose three squadrons were deployed around Saint-Aignan. Ten minutes later, when the three leading Tigers were at a range of about 700 metres, all the tanks of No.3 Troop opened up even though their 75mm guns were not man enough to penetrate Tiger's armour. At the same time, Sergeant Gordon in command of a Firefly engaged the rear tank of the three. His gunner, Trooper Joe Eskin's, fired two shells from his high-velocity 17-pdr gun which struck home, causing it to catch fire. The second Tiger then traversed its 88mm gun to the right and replied with three shots at the Firefly which was already reversing into cover. Trooper Eskins fired one round at the second Tiger which exploded in a flash of flame. By this time the third Tiger was milling about, possibly suffering some damage from the 75mm fire from the rest of the troop. Two more shots from Eskins settled the matter and the German started to burn. Minutes later the No.3 Troop observed some 15 to 20 tanks at a range of 1100 metres due south and Trooper Eskins fired one shot at the leader and scored a hit. The panzer started to burn. More tanks were seen on the west side of the road at a range of 1600 metres. Trooper John Crittenden in another Firefly fired shots at two of them and they both brewed up. In just 30 minutes, fiver Tigers had been knocked out. The four that lie right off the road - those of Wittmann, Dollinger, Iriohn and Kisters-can be seen ringed below in this picture taken by the RAF the following day, but as there are too many vehicles on the left hand side of the road, the fifth Tiger, that of Hoflinger, cannot be posistively identified.
Posted Image
One of the survivors, SS-Sturmmann Alfred Bahlo, later recalled: 'I was radio operator and machine-gunner in the panzer of SS-Untersturmfuhrer Helmut Dollinger, the signals officer of the Abteilung. SS-Oberscharfuhrer Johann Schott was the UKW-Funker (The radio link with the other panzers) and the gun-loader. The driver and the gunner were SS-Unterscharfuhrer; I have forgotten their names. The shell that hit our panzer broke through the right hand flank. It exploded into the fighting compartment and Schott was badly wounded. I was myself lightly injured in the neck. Dollinger, the driver and me all baled out and later we helped to remove Schott who was handicapped by his grave wound. I tried to stop some panzers which were withdrawing so they could take Schott away. I failed because the Tiger of SS-Untersturmfuhrer Iriohn passed by the turret hatch closed and another Tiger was hit just infront of me. Dollinger and me then put Schott on a stretcher and we carried him to the Caen-Falaise road. On our way, we passed infront of the disabled panzer of SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer Wittmann; the turret has been blown apart. On the road, a Kubelwagon took Schott and drove away. I continued by foot to the first aid post. (Johann Schott died of his wounds within a few hours).

After an investigation in 1982 fragments of one of the Tigers were discovered in the field east of the N158 the researchers were told locally that the crews were buried beside their tanks. The Volksbund Deutsche Kreigsgraberfursorge had made several attempts to find the remains of the crews during their recovery work in France between 1956 and 1963 but without success. The discovery of the fragments was passed on to the commission which organised a further search. In March 1983, human remains were uncovered here including fragments of black material , boots, and an officers belt buckle. An identity disc gave the posistive identification of SS-Unterscharfuhrer Heinrich Reimers, the driver of tank '007', and a set of false incisor teeth were matched with Wittmann's dental records.

Together with Michael Wittmann and Heinrich Reimers, on August 8, 1944 the crew of Tiger '007' comprised SS-Unterscharfuhrer Karl Wagner, Gunner, SS-Sturmmann Rudolf Hirschel, Radio Operator and SS-Sturmmann Gunther Weber, Gun Loader. Wittmann and his crew were given a formal burial in the huge German War Cemetery in Normandy at La Cambe which contains over 21,000 dead from the Second World War.

It was the end of a 40-year mystery.
  • 0

#5 dbf

dbf

    Captionless

  • Super Moderators
  • 13,074 posts
  • LocationProvince of Moribund

Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:50 AM

Hi,
There might be some useful information in the article I posted #30 on this thread.
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/battle-specifics/6768-wittman-tactics-3.html
D
  • 0

#6 James S

James S

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 3,064 posts

Posted 21 February 2009 - 12:55 PM

I was up this small track / road in June of last year.
The attached photo is approximately the raea where his tank was killed.
Was not out of the car as time was movbing on and we were some way from our accomadation.
The small road / track cuts through the field , today nothing says what happened there.
I have the Agte book will look through it for some additional photos.
The style of the book does not really work for me.

Attached Files


  • 0

#7 Drew5233

Drew5233

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 25,540 posts
  • LocationLeeds, West Yorkshire

Posted 21 February 2009 - 03:12 PM

Hi,
There might be some useful information in the article I posted #30 on this thread.
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/battle-specifics/6768-wittman-tactics-3.html
D


Cheers D,

Its good to put a face to Eskin's.

Many Thanks
Andy
  • 0

#8 canuck

canuck

    Token Colonial

  • Registered Users
  • 2,723 posts

Posted 21 February 2009 - 03:33 PM

Thanks Drew

Any idea how far north of Cintheaux this RAF photo was taken? I'm trying to orient it against the attached. Cheers.

Web browser and Live Maps are incompatible
  • 0
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

Mark Twain

#9 Drew5233

Drew5233

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 25,540 posts
  • LocationLeeds, West Yorkshire

Posted 21 February 2009 - 03:51 PM

Here you go mate thanks to Google Earth.
Posted Image

A close up of the track leading North East from the roadside Farm/Buildings in the middle of the two N158 Signs
Posted Image
Any probs give me a shout :D

Cheers
Andy

Edited by Drew5233, 21 February 2009 - 03:59 PM.

  • 0

#10 Drew5233

Drew5233

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 25,540 posts
  • LocationLeeds, West Yorkshire

Posted 21 February 2009 - 03:58 PM

Just looking at it again, I'm not as convinced now as I was at first. However its the closest match I can find along that road.

Cheers
Andy
  • 0

#11 m kenny

m kenny

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 415 posts

Posted 21 February 2009 - 04:52 PM

No need to re-invent the wheel

Axis WWII Discussion Group: David Byrden, Cintheaux on google earth

Axis WWII Discussion Group: SS101 Tigers lost on 8 Aug. 1944 around Cintheaux (incl. new photo) - longuish

Axis WWII Discussion Group: Cintheaux s.SS-Pz.Abt. 101 wrecks identification...---

Axis WWII Discussion Group: Tiger 223, Falaise

Edited by m kenny, 21 February 2009 - 05:00 PM.

  • 2

#12 Paul Reed

Paul Reed

    Ubique

  • Super Moderators
  • 6,580 posts
  • LocationUK/France

Posted 21 February 2009 - 05:17 PM

Good links!
  • 0





 

"The only way you get out of infantry is on a stretcher or six feet under..."

Battlefields of WW2
: The Guide to visiting WW2 Battlefields.

www.ww2battlefields.com


#13 canuck

canuck

    Token Colonial

  • Registered Users
  • 2,723 posts

Posted 22 February 2009 - 05:37 AM

Thanks to everyone who contributed. Clearly a lot of clever folks have spent much time on the Wittmann research. I'm quite impressed by the depth of knowledge on this. So, the answer to my original question is that Wittmann's Tiger was knocked out approx. 600m from the current Canadian cemetery. Now a good excuse to go back to Normandy.

Cheers
  • 0
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

Mark Twain

#14 SteveP

SteveP

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • PipPip
  • 12 posts

Posted 23 March 2009 - 01:02 PM

Hi, The After The Battle Article is a good reference. Wittmann's tank was the one nearest the road. I have compared the site with the present day google map and this is my best estimate (see photo)

Attached Files


  • 0

#15 AndyPants

AndyPants

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts

Posted 05 May 2009 - 11:31 PM

hey guys, this is a bit of a suprise, i was in france just over a week ago, and i actually stoped off and had a little walk through these fields. they had already been ploughed and seeded, so there was fresh growth, but if you kept your eyes open (which of course i did) you can see lots of rusted shrapnel and other bits and peices of rusty unidentifyable stuff.
  • 0

#16 Jayce

Jayce

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 12 January 2010 - 07:35 PM

Hi everyone, Sorry to dig up an old thread. But I'm currently writing up a short summary of the fighting around Cintheaux for the descendant of one of the Brave Canadian lads who gave their lives there.

Thanks for the information, as a sort of repayment I can give you the coordinates for where Wittmans tank stood in the Aug 8th recce photo. I had a copy of the original Recce pic from the Keele archives a few years ago and was able to overlay the arial photo with modern ones and thanks to contemporary features still around in Gaumesnil today, was able to plot the position exactly.

It's 49º4'0.11"N 0º17'30.22"W

HTH, Jay
  • 1

#17 Smudger Jnr

Smudger Jnr

    Our Man in Berlin

  • Registered Users
  • 9,529 posts
  • LocationBerlin, Germany.

Posted 12 January 2010 - 08:37 PM

Jayce,

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Nice work with the exact co-ordinates and I am sure Andy will be posting the exact spot when he sees your post.

Regards
Tom
  • 0
Reconnaissance Corps - Only the enemy in front.

#18 von Poop

von Poop

    Adaministrator

  • Idi Admin
  • 12,350 posts
  • LocationThe Abbey of Thelema

Posted 12 January 2010 - 11:18 PM

Hi everyone, Sorry to dig up an old thread. But I'm currently writing up a short summary of the fighting around Cintheaux for the descendant of one of the Brave Canadian lads who gave their lives there.

Thanks for the information, as a sort of repayment I can give you the coordinates for where Wittmans tank stood in the Aug 8th recce photo. I had a copy of the original Recce pic from the Keele archives a few years ago and was able to overlay the arial photo with modern ones and thanks to contemporary features still around in Gaumesnil today, was able to plot the position exactly.

It's 49º4'0.11"N 0º17'30.22"W

HTH, Jay

Nice one Jayce.
Converted to a KMZ file so one can zoom in on Google Earth:
Attached File  Wittmann's Tiger.kmz   683bytes   36 downloads

~A
  • 0

Cake?

 

Any questions about life, the Universe and everything else; ask Owen, he loves all that stuff.


#19 idler

idler

    GeneralList

  • Registered Users
  • 2,962 posts

Posted 12 January 2010 - 11:35 PM

On top of multiple claims for who hit him, some cursory Googling suggests at least three different 'claims' for the discovery of his body:

1) Jean-Paul Pallud as published in ATB's Panzers in Normandy: Then and Now - found at the roadside after establishing the position of his Tiger.

2) M Samson the farmer as published in Meyer's 12 SS history (on GoogleBooks) - finds remains near the Tiger's location with a strong suggestion that he ploughed them up.

3) Unverified statement that the remains were found during the construction of the new road (but isn't the new road west of the old one whereas the Tiger was knocked out to the east of the road?)

After the Battle's mag 48 has an article on Wittmann's last battle - does anyone know which version it goes with (I'm assuming Pallud's)?
  • 0

#20 Jayce

Jayce

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 13 January 2010 - 06:35 AM

Idler can't comment with any certain knowledge on points one and two, (though the french Historian, Yann Joualt would probably know for certain.)

As for point three I can clarify that the 158 was widened into a dual carriage way in the early 80s I believe, but that it was the eastern side that was widened. The Farm yard on the eastern side of Garmesnil as well as a cottage and an orchard were demolished to make room.

The original maisonelle that the hamlet takes it's name from was partially destroyed during the fighting and completely destroyed, according to local legend, by the Canadians billeted there getting drunk and accidentally burning it down!

Now, if you've read No Holding Back by Brian Reid you may recall that Radley-Walters states that the Sherbrooke's dug in behind a stone wall in Garmesnil and it was from behind this wall that they ambushed the stab Kompanie. This wall, well part of it, is still standing today and can be seen juting out from the small farm yard on the right hand side of the road, just north of the War Cemetary on the modern Aerial Photos that Drew and Steve P so kindly posted.

Intruigingly, if my positioning for Wittman's tank is correct and as I say, thanks to still existent landmarks, I'm positive... Wittman was already about 200 yards north-east, beyond the Canadian positions. It's quite probable that the Tiger the Sherbrookes claimed and that Brian Reid labelled as Wittmann's was in fact Hans Hofflinger's Tank as Radley-Walters consistently describes the knocked out Tiger as being on the road. It's pretty clear from both the recce photos and Serge Varin's well known pic that 007 was east of the road when it was destroyed.

Furthermore, the buildings and hedges since pulled down by the highway widening would have obscured the Canadian's view of Wittmann's Tiger, this opens up again the posibilty that The Northhamptonshire Yeomanry, more specifically Joe Ekin in his Firefly did the deed...

I don't believe so. I think the credit does indeed belong to the Sherbrookes. What likely happened was that the right-hand most tank behind the wall saw 007 moving beyond the flank of the canadian position and took a pot-shot at the Tiger while the rest of the troop were busy shooting at Hofflinger!
Thanks to the smoke, hedgerows and the obscuring farm buildings, east of the road, and that 007 was behind them, the Sherbrookes may never have even realized they knocked 007 out.

Sorry for the long post but thought that might clear things up.

Jay.

Edited by Jayce, 13 January 2010 - 06:54 AM.
oops, mixing kompanies!

  • 0

#21 Gerard

Gerard

    Seelow/Prora

  • Registered Users
  • 4,790 posts

Posted 13 January 2010 - 09:46 AM

Fantastic post Jay, well made! This is a fascinating thread lads, good stuff.
  • 0

"The Eastern front is like a house of cards. If the front is broken through at one point all the rest will collapse."
- General Heinz Guderian

 

"There's no "i" in team, but there's four in Platitude Quoting Idiot" 
 


#22 idler

idler

    GeneralList

  • Registered Users
  • 2,962 posts

Posted 13 January 2010 - 06:39 PM

As for point three I can clarify that the 158 was widened into a dual carriage way in the early 80s I believe, but that it was the eastern side that was widened. The Farm yard on the eastern side of Garmesnil as well as a cottage and an orchard were demolished to make room.


Thanks for the notes, Jay.

I assumed that the single-carriageway road to the east of the dual carriageway was the original.

It just seems a little odd that one incontrovertible fact - where the bodies were found - doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere, even though the German war graves people ought to have a record.

My something's-not-right sense is still tingling, but I can't figure out why... even though I know this has been researched to death.
  • 0

#23 Drew5233

Drew5233

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 25,540 posts
  • LocationLeeds, West Yorkshire

Posted 16 January 2010 - 12:33 AM

Looks like all the Q's may be answered here?

http://www.ww2talk.c...html#post254371
  • 0

#24 idler

idler

    GeneralList

  • Registered Users
  • 2,962 posts

Posted 16 January 2010 - 12:48 PM

This documentary is also on YouTube in five parts.

It's my question of the location of Wittmann's grave - it wasn't 'by the roadside' nor 'found during the construction of the new road', it was 'near the Tiger's location'.
  • 0

#25 KevinBattle

KevinBattle

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,060 posts

Posted 16 January 2010 - 01:52 PM

I saw a programme yesterday (15th Jan) on a Discovery or History Channel attributing the "kill" to a Canadian Sherman. I don't know if it's available on Catch Up or it may be repeated again (some seem to turn up a day or so later) shortly, so perhaps worth looking out for??
Thought it worth mentioning..........
Edit: Doh!! Just seen Drew5233 posting.... the programme is "Battlefield Mysteries".............
  • 0

#26 James S

James S

    Very Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 3,064 posts

Posted 16 January 2010 - 02:25 PM

Caught that last night and enjoyed watching it, the collection passed on to the local land owner was really something worth seeing.
Wittmann's grave has indeed become something more than a grave and as the narrator said we should be mindful of whom he served and yet behind this is the loss of lives , ultimately it was all a waste and the rose tinted spectacles should be left behind when viewing the grave of the crew.
As the point was made - in contrast how many people visit the grave of the others killed on that same day - probably no one.
  • 0

#27 Medic7922

Medic7922

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 352 posts
  • LocationSouth Gloucestershire

Posted 18 January 2010 - 07:11 PM

I missed part of the documentary, am I right that Wittmans body was not found until the 1980s with other Panzer crews in a field close to were he's tank was blown up?
  • 0
:poppy: Remembering the Lockwood, Knight, Osgothorpe & Haddigan family who served fought & died in both wars :poppy:

Old age and Treachery will overcome Youth and Skill.

#28 cash_13

cash_13

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 596 posts

Posted 18 January 2010 - 10:53 PM

That is correct Medic, also from the documentary it said that it would have been one hell of a lucky shot for the Yeomanry Firefly to have taken out Wittmans Tiger as it would have been nearly a kilometer away 1000m.....yes it was possible to kill with the 17pdr at a range of 1200m but a highly unlikely shot as Wittmans Tiger would have been down a slope because of the lay of the land and very little would have been visible. The Canadians on the other hand would have had a clear shot at about 140 metres and from the damage from the photos the main damage came from the rear left of the Tiger just behind the Turret ring and the flames caused the Ammo to expode...

But shit we were not there and only those who were will know for sure.....

Who ever it was has the greatest admiration for even taking a Tiger on...

Regards Lee
  • 0
Family Cyril Claude Phillips Leading Stoker HMS Warspite

Grand Father Cyril George Pickford Private Royal Engineers

Great Grand Father George Pickford Private Royal Engineers

Great Uncle Harold Pickford Private Royal Army Service Corp

Grand Father Thomas Finney Seaman HMS Ramillies

Wifes Great Grandfather Major Charles Spurling

#29 canuck

canuck

    Token Colonial

  • Registered Users
  • 2,723 posts

Posted 10 October 2011 - 07:47 PM

In George G. Blackburn’s, The Guns of Normandy, he makes reference to a Military Medal won at Cramesnil on August 8th, 1944 by Captain William James ‘Bill’ Waddell.
The 4th Field Regiment supported the Royal Regiment of Canada throughout the Normandy campaign and Waddell was the FOO during the Totalize offensive.

In Blackburn’s description, the decoration was won on the morning of the 8th,

“when two Panthers and two Tigers move up on the Caen-Falaise highway, and another group of them on the far side of Cramesnil opens fire. Firing heavily, several actually penetrate to within a few yards of the Royals’ tac headquarters, which is on the east side of the road.

On the west side, is the Royals’ mortar platoon, along with some carriers and medium machine guns of the Toronto Scottish. All are still digging in when, suddenly, screeching, armour-piercing shots begin hitting the Scottish carriers. Then one after another the Royals’ mortar platoon carriers are hit. As the carriers take fire, mortar bombs begin to blow up and the Germans spray the area with machine gun fire. The Tor Scots lose all their carriers and medium machine guns, and all seven of the Royals’ carriers, along with all their mortars and ammunition, are destroyed.

In the midst of this threatening uproar, which grows more dangerous by the minute, Bill Waddell, the 4th Field FOO with the leading company, pinpoints the location of the German tanks and goes back on foot to lead a troop of the Sherbrooke Fusiliers tanks into position where they can get clear shots at them. And when he gets them close enough to be effective he directs their fire, knocking out at least four.

Major Ralph Young, second-in-command of the Royals’, an eye witness to Waddell’s heroism, will have difficulty later (even forty years later) finding words to describe it. “This guy is standing out in the open, all by his bloody self, pointing out a German tank here, another there, yelling at our tanks, ‘Hit the goddamn thing! Those are his fire orders.’ With him pointing and the tanks shooting, they knock out two self-propelled guns and two tanks.”

Accounts of the action at Cramesnil on the 8th almost always focus on the death of Wittmann. That, of course, seemingly occurred later in the day (1pm) and I have yet to find any material which provides an overall context to the attacks on Cramesnil from the morning through to the afternoon of the 8th. The attacking German unit and the troop from the SF are not identified.



Attached File  Totalize.jpg   42.09K   14 downloads

Attached File  totalize2.jpg   60.67K   12 downloads
  • 0
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

Mark Twain

#30 Tom Canning

Tom Canning

    WW2 Veteran

  • Veterans
  • 7,174 posts

Posted 10 October 2011 - 08:10 PM

Cash13 -
Lee - that sounds funny as we had to take on Tigers - and Panthers with six pounder guns and the odd 75mm - no 17 pounders anywhere near us at that time- never did see one on a Tank In Italy ...our best bet was to sneak around the back of them and give them one up the exhaust pipe- wasn't always easy with a 40 Ton Churchill
Cheers
Cheers
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users